Branden Farthing

A lot of people who preordered GTO’s have been voicing complaints about how slow GM has been to deliver their cars. This is understandable, as everyone wants to be the first in their area to own a GTO, and it is hard to wait when you order a car anyway. This week I took these complaints to Pontiac’s reps at GM Headquarters and got to the bottom of the situation.

Importing cars is common in today’s auto industry; so common few realize how complex the logistics involved are. That being said, there are several factors slowing the process that leads finished GTO’s to their awaiting owners. First off, though GM is a huge company, this is the first time that GM has really ever imported a car to the west coast (San Diego). Though the logistics and procedures were in place, they were not tested on a full scale until the first batch of GTO’s hit the harbor. The boat part of shipping the cars here has actually been one of the smoother aspects of the operation. Once the GTO’s are off the boat is where the trouble has occurred. The cars go from the boat to a railroad depot where they are put on trains and sent to their respective regions. The errors that have slowed delivery involve GTOs arriving at their destinations and sitting on rail cars for periods of time with no trucks to move them. This is due to a logistics error between GM and the trucking companies, which in the end leaves GM in a position where all they can say is “We’re sorry”. This issue has been resolved as of this writing, and Pontiac asked that I extend its apologies to enthusiasts. Also, one last issue that has delayed the cars has been the snow, which has slowed rail travel in some areas of the country. This is something that is noticeable in a small production car like the GTO, but not as much in a high volume car like say the Chevrolet Impala. This issue, unfortunately, GM has no control over. There have been snags (as with any operation of this size), but GM has assured us that it has corrected problems, and newer shipments will reach dealers quicker.

On thing to remember is that GM designed the shipping process to be not only quick, but cost effective. GM saves costs in the shipping process several ways, but namely by combining GTO shipments with the new Chevrolet Aveo which is made in South Korea. At first this may seem like bad thing, but in reality it gets GTO’s here quicker and cheaper. The GTO at 18,000 units annually is roughly 12% of the Holden Elizabeth plant’s 150,000 unit annual production. If you do the math, that means that the Holden plant is only making 1500 GTO’s a month. At that pace it would take weeks of production to fill a ship with just GTO’s. By shipping the GTO with the higher volume Aveo, it spreads out cost, and gets the cars on their way quicker. Also it spreads the shipping cost among two programs lowering overall costs. Such cash consciousness is why the GTO stickers for less than some versions of the late WS6 Trans Am and still makes GM a nice profit. Also keep in mind that the GTO’s production run of 18,000 units is the lowest production of a Pontiac model in a long time. That figure is actually a little more than half the Firebird’s average yearly production in the late 1990’s. With 30% of the GTO’s already ordered when production started, it is simply going to take a while to get everyone’s car made. Pontiac did jokingly advise us however, that if anyone wants their GTO airlifted to the US it can be done through a carrier for $23,000 (I am guessing they did this during the pilot phase). What does all this mean is you are waiting for your GTO? Basically if it should have been here by now, sit tight it will be very soon. For those that have ordered one, but have a later production date, you can only expect the time for production to delivery to get smaller with each shipment. As always, keep checking www.NewAgeGTO.com for all the latest GTO news.








Please Credit NewAgeGTO for this article.

Sure could've used this email 45 days ago.

Holdens elizabeth plant made nearly 180,000 cars last year, hoping to stretch it past 200,000 in the coming years. So really they could be pumping them out at a rate of 1800-2000 a month

Originally posted by Odin@Jan 23 2004, 04:40 AM
Holdens elizabeth plant made nearly 180,000 cars last year, hoping to stretch it past 200,000 in the coming years. So really they could be pumping them out at a rate of 1800-2000 a month

18000 cars divided by 12 months=1500 was how i did my math.

I got 150,000 from a post in the Holden forum...

Well I may be wrong on that figure, but I do know that holden wants to produce up to 200,000 cars at the elizabeth plant in the coming years, and this year they plan on hittin aiming at the 170,000 odd mark.

Well, that's good to know.

A couple things stand out it the explanation. First is we know at least some of the ships went to Benicia California. What is the San Diego thing about. Second is that they state that the cars were sent from the railyard to their respective regions. There is only one car in Washington State and it was shipped through Kansas. Maybe that was the cheapest way but seems like a long ways out of the way. There is no snow between CA and WA. I believe most of what they say but they are still making stuff up especially about the faster part. My car left customs on the 3rd of January. The dealer has not been able to find it.
:ph34r: :ph34r:

Pontiac only spoke og San Diego to me....

maybe it is close to the town you mentioned.

Benicia is about 800 miles from San Diego. Maybe those guys need a geography lesson. Having lived on the right coast for a year I do know that people in general do not understand that the states are a whole lot bigger on the left side of the country. Washington for example is about 300 miles by 400 miles and we are considered average.
:ph34r: :ph34r:

It is a given that many western States are huge, but then there is Texas in the south, and Alaska out by itself!

Then there is my state of Illinois. Road & Track writer Peter Egan once described the first time he and a buddy decided to drive from Wisconsin to Florida for the races at Sebring.

They looked at the map and when they saw Illinois, they decided it would be shorter to go over the north pole! :P

Illinois is almost 400 miles long and is about 220 miles wide at its mid-section.

Plus for a lot of it, it is boringly flat! Great state, but if going from Chicago to Cairo (say it Care'-Row,........ Ki-row is in Egypt and CAY-Row is a syrup! :) ) you need to have No-doze and a good cruise control.

Just some fun facts, I am also frustrated at the slow delivery of my Quicksilver 6-speed.

Question, has the 6-speed been delayed, seems like most of the early deliveries were automatics. How about the Red interior?

Now late January, be nice to have a new GTO to go to spring cruise-in's in Illinois!

Don

That explanation is a little contradictive of the facts in my area. I'm sure there are at least a few people within 50 miles of Omaha who have pre-ordered. However, at my small town dealership they have a black/black 6M on the lot at MSRP and another 8 due to "arrive soon". And at the same dealership in a town just 20 miles away they have at least 1 that was mentioned on this forum. That's just ONE dealership in Nebraska of all places. I don't see why I should be seeing these cars on some dealerships lot, unspoken for, while some of you have pre-ordered and are waiting for the EXACT SAME CARS? Appearently multiples of cars on dealership lots are more important than people willing to pay for them before they even get there.

Maybe I'm missing something here. :blink:

I can see that they want to have them on lots to show them off, but EIGHT cars! Why don't they just slap the pre-order people on the back of the head and tell them to go stand in a corner for an hour? :rolleyes: It's kind of an insult if you think about it...

Originally posted by roncoop@Jan 23 2004, 06:32 PM
That explanation is a little contradictive of the facts in my area. I'm sure there are at least a few people within 50 miles of Omaha who have pre-ordered. However, at my small town dealership they have a black/black 6M on the lot at MSRP and another 8 due to "arrive soon". And at the same dealership in a town just 20 miles away they have at least 1 that was mentioned on this forum. That's just ONE dealership in Nebraska of all places. I don't see why I should be seeing these cars on some dealerships lot, unspoken for, while some of you have pre-ordered and are waiting for the EXACT SAME CARS? Appearently multiples of cars on dealership lots are more important than people willing to pay for them before they even get there.

Maybe I'm missing something here. :blink:

I can see that they want to have them on lots to show them off, but EIGHT cars! Why don't they just slap the pre-order people on the back of the head and tell them to go stand in a corner for an hour? :rolleyes: It's kind of an insult if you think about it...
One thing I think Pontiac won't own up to is.....

Even though you have ordered cars...if they gave all the first production ones to people who ordered them it would take forever to get some on the showroom floor. Pontiac wants GTO's on the showroom floor to draw people in. So maybe that explains what you are seeing.

Originally posted by Branden@Jan 23 2004, 07:27 PM

One thing I think Pontiac won't own up to is.....

Even though you have ordered cars...if they gave all the first production ones to people who ordered them it would take forever to get some on the showroom floor. Pontiac wants GTO's on the showroom floor to draw people in. So maybe that explains what you are seeing.
This makes sense, but doesn't the situation boarder on false advertising? I remember signing up for the advanced order with a hook like 'be the first on your block...' or something like that.

As a matter of fact I just pulled out my letter from Pontiac. To quote:

"On behalf of the entire Pontiac team, thank you for ordering a new GTO.
The new GTO has become one of the most anticipated new vehicles in recent history and you are among the select group who will be the first to own one."

Since there's no evidence my car is in the country, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be among the first.

Good work Branden. thank you. I do agree with the other posts as far as pre orders. Why do it if it means nothing to gm. Just say first come first serve. Pre orders. please. you pull my other leg and it plays jingle bells.

Originally posted by rschumacherfan1+Jan 23 2004, 11:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rschumacherfan1 @ Jan 23 2004, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Branden@Jan 23 2004, 07:27 PM

One thing I think Pontiac won't own up to is.....

Even though you have ordered cars...if they gave all the first production ones to people who ordered them it would take forever to get some on the showroom floor. Pontiac wants GTO's on the showroom floor to draw people in. So maybe that explains what you are seeing.
This makes sense, but doesn't the situation boarder on false advertising? I remember signing up for the advanced order with a hook like 'be the first on your block...' or something like that.

As a matter of fact I just pulled out my letter from Pontiac. To quote:

"On behalf of the entire Pontiac team, thank you for ordering a new GTO.
The new GTO has become one of the most anticipated new vehicles in recent history and you are among the select group who will be the first to own one."

Since there's no evidence my car is in the country, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be among the first. [/b][/quote]
Yeah, I am not so sure about false advertising. I think Pontiac had more pre-orders than they though they would get. 30% of the 18,000 was accounted for a month before production...so some preorders are going to be delayed. Also if a dealer ordered 10 GTO's before production started and 4 are preorders for customers...it is possible to get some of the unaccounted ones before the preorder ones.

It is my opinon the the preorder program was a mistake for Pontiac. They don't do it on anticipated cars made in the US, why do it on one that is gonna be imported on a system that you have never tried before?

Cool.

There was 30% preorders but were they actual people or some dealers? Wouldn't that explain some of the showroom cars?

I beleive 30% were already sold to customers.

Bunch of horses asses. It really shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Of course being a large company, there probably was 700 people involved on 10 comittes

30% cars presold doesn't explain the fact that I ordered my car in August - a full month before production started - and there are already easily 100 cars in dealerships for joe schmoe to go in and buy. Given it will be at least a month to get my car to Illinois from California, that will easily be over 1000 before I take delivery. And that's assuming my car is built and close to being in the US. I don't have any indication that that's the case - which is the other problem. I would be much less annoyed if I know for sure what the status was. As far as my dealer is concerned - by car hasn't een built yet, even though from the internet information I'm convinced it probably has been. I'll just have to see if we make the 60-90 days from TPW and go from there. At least then they will have been correct in my case.

No matter how this subject gets (over) analyzed, there isn't a **** thing any of us can do about it. We'll get our cars when we get our cars. Personally, I just try to put it out of my mind. Unfortunately, I can't.

Originally posted by Branden@Jan 23 2004, 10:27 PM
I beleive 30% were already sold to customers.
"already sold" is really a stretch. All most people have done is put down a fully refundable $500 deposit.

Originally posted by tdimasi@Jan 24 2004, 04:16 PM
No matter how this subject get (over) analyzed, there isn't a **** thing any of us can do about it. We'll get our cars when we get our cars. Personally, I just try to put it out of my mind. Unfortunately, I can't.
The sub 10 degree weather and constant snow seems to help me wait. I don't think it will help us, but I'm fairly certain Pontiac people read this and ls1gto boards and know what frustrations they have caused. Hopefully they can fix it in the future.

I don't buy the explanation at all. GM is full of s***. I pre-ordered my car and it didn't arrive in the U.S. until Jan 3. I think the entire explanantion is ****. AND, if GM wants to apologize, send me a letter. Don't try to do some pathetic insincere apology through this website.

Do you know the dealers are no required to do a load test on the batteries because these cars have been in shipping so long?

If it was summer time and I was missing prime driving time, I would have told GM to stick the car up their a** long ago and I would've bought a 350Z. :angry:

One thing not mentioned OR considered is just what a particular dealer's "allocation" of GTOs is as that's usually what determines when any order -- sold or for stock -- is processed into the plant's build schedule. As for the "sold order" numbers, I don't believe the validity of a "sold order" is double-checked by GM per se to see if a dealer's really ordering a vehicle for a real customer or claiming it's a sold order just to get some priority in the system.

As Branden mentioned, having stock vehicles on the lot is just as important as building "sold orders". In the case of the SRX, for example, each dealer got one car for demo use only with larger volume dealers getting two, in addition to what they ordered for stock.

So, let's roll through a scenario . . .

You go into the dealership, make a deal and put down a suitable deposit on a new car. As far as you're concerned, it's "ordered", but that will not be done until that order is inputed into the vehicle order system and into the GM computer network. As for delivery time frame? A dealer operative can only speak in generalities as until they get confirmation of the vehicle's MSO (manufacturer's statement of origin) that means the vehicle is built or a build date projection, the first part of the sequence is not complete.

The second part of the sequence is when the vehicle is scheduled to be built. This gets into the allocation deal. A dealer's vehicle allocation is a somewhat complex formula of sorts and can have many variables (i.e., manufacturer's CSI ratings in sales and service, vehicle sales volume, market area, projected needs for a new model, participation in factory programs in sales, parts, service). So, regardless of what vehicles that dealer has in the order system, until a slot comes up with their name on it, so to speak, their orders are just orders waiting to be processed. Also, in the case of the Chrysler Crossfire, I understand that in order to get one, a dealer had to agree to also take a certain number of PTCruisers in the deal too. So, allocation is something that can be a determining factor in the receipt of any vehicle a dealership orders.

Then, there can be production delays for particular items that can delay a build date. For example, if the vendor for the instrument clusters for the GTO was having problems with the units for red cars, it would delay any orders for red cars (as the instrument gage faceplates are color keyed to the exterior color). When that problem is resolved, they they will be put back into the system as best they can be. Total number of cars built will be the same, just that the red ones might be shuffled into slots for other color of cars.

Transportation? Be glad they are sharing shipments with other GM vehicles. I also understand how their distribution routes might seem a little out of whack too, but if they are designed around a hub system, they might have to go a ways out of the way, seemingly, to get to where they need to be.

My uncle recently ordered a new Chevy pickup. Usually, about a 4-6 week wait, but it strung on longer than that. In the 7th week, it was determined that the vehicle was still in Mexico for some reason, waiting to be shipped. The dealer hustled and dealer traded for a similar unit with a 3.42 rear axle instead of the 3.73 he ordered. Why was it still in Mexico? Not sure.

When Dodge was doing their initial roll out of the Vipers, they started on the east coast and west coast, moving toward the middle as time progressed. As those cars were delivered in enclosed trailers, unless they had a load going to your area, you had to wait, unfortunately, or you could arrange for "Plant Delivery".

Remember the deals on PTCruisers initially? Chrysler underestimated the demand for that vehicle, plain and simple. Not to mention that manufacturers usually have slower production initially than after the car's been in production for a while.

As for those dealers with cars on the lot? They could be stock units or units ordered as sold orders. They could also have "availability charges" or dealer add-ons to increase the price of the vehicle. I'll admit that I'm not clued in on the distribution specifics on the GTO specifically, just speaking of what used to go on in the allocation "game". Maybe those dealers' timing in their ordering hit just right? Maybe they agreed to take a representative stock well in advance of actual production? Who know without doing some investigation, an investigation that really would not solve or prove anything.

If you're really concerned about your ordered vehicle, respectfully request the dealer operatives to log into their Internet portals and see what's going on. If it's been built? When is it scheduled to be built? Is it in transit? Where "in transit" is it? With the new capabilities of the GM computer system, they can probably find out more than they suspect they can. If they start side-stepping for some reason, then you might consider calling your local Pontiac Zone Office and ask for assistance and for them to show the dealer's operatives this new computer system's capabilities.

Perhaps the one place that Pontiac/GM really "missed the boat" was not setting up a "Port of Entry Delivery Center"? Or using some of the regional Zone Offices for this function too? In a program such as that, you could have a phone number to call to check on your vehicle's status, but all items related to the sale of the vehicle would have to be completed by the selling dealership. Having a special place to pickup your special car would be pretty neat, in my orientation.

I know it can be frustrating to be waiting, waiting, waiting for a new car to arrive that was "built for you". You can analize it and re-analize and second guess it, but the fact remains that it'll get to you when it gets to you. Even if yours is not the first one on Main Street, they will still be scarce enough that it will remain a special car. Remember too, that special order vehicle of yours should not have been subjected to any "check-out" demo drives by other potential customers that were "just looking".

I hope this might explain things a little better in some respects.

Hopefully, those of you waiting for your new GTOs will discover that it was well worth the wait.

Just some thoughts,
NTX5467

One thing not mentioned OR considered is just what a particular dealer's "allocation" of GTOs is as that's usually what determines when any order -- sold or for stock -- is processed into the plant's build schedule. As for the "sold order" numbers, I don't believe the validity of a "sold order" is double-checked by GM per se to see if a dealer's really ordering a vehicle for a real customer or claiming it's a sold order just to get some priority in the system.

As Branden mentioned, having stock vehicles on the lot is just as important as building "sold orders". In the case of the SRX, for example, each dealer got one car for demo use only with larger volume dealers getting two, in addition to what they ordered for stock.

So, let's roll through a scenario . . .

You go into the dealership, make a deal and put down a suitable deposit on a new car. As far as you're concerned, it's "ordered", but that will not be done until that order is inputed into the vehicle order system and into the GM computer network. As for delivery time frame? A dealer operative can only speak in generalities as until they get confirmation of the vehicle's MSO (manufacturer's statement of origin) that means the vehicle is built or a build date projection, the first part of the sequence is not complete.

The second part of the sequence is when the vehicle is scheduled to be built. This gets into the allocation deal. A dealer's vehicle allocation is a somewhat complex formula of sorts and can have many variables (i.e., manufacturer's CSI ratings in sales and service, vehicle sales volume, market area, projected needs for a new model, participation in factory programs in sales, parts, service). So, regardless of what vehicles that dealer has in the order system, until a slot comes up with their name on it, so to speak, their orders are just orders waiting to be processed. Also, in the case of the Chrysler Crossfire, I understand that in order to get one, a dealer had to agree to also take a certain number of PTCruisers in the deal too. So, allocation is something that can be a determining factor in the receipt of any vehicle a dealership orders.

Then, there can be production delays for particular items that can delay a build date. For example, if the vendor for the instrument clusters for the GTO was having problems with the units for red cars, it would delay any orders for red cars (as the instrument gage faceplates are color keyed to the exterior color). When that problem is resolved, they they will be put back into the system as best they can be. Total number of cars built will be the same, just that the red ones might be shuffled into slots for other color of cars.

Transportation? Be glad they are sharing shipments with other GM vehicles. I also understand how their distribution routes might seem a little out of whack too, but if they are designed around a hub system, they might have to go a ways out of the way, seemingly, to get to where they need to be.

My uncle recently ordered a new Chevy pickup. Usually, about a 4-6 week wait, but it strung on longer than that. In the 7th week, it was determined that the vehicle was still in Mexico for some reason, waiting to be shipped. The dealer hustled and dealer traded for a similar unit with a 3.42 rear axle instead of the 3.73 he ordered. Why was it still in Mexico? Not sure.

When Dodge was doing their initial roll out of the Vipers, they started on the east coast and west coast, moving toward the middle as time progressed. As those cars were delivered in enclosed trailers, unless they had a load going to your area, you had to wait, unfortunately, or you could arrange for "Plant Delivery".

Remember the deals on PTCruisers initially? Chrysler underestimated the demand for that vehicle, plain and simple. Not to mention that manufacturers usually have slower production initially than after the car's been in production for a while.

As for those dealers with cars on the lot? They could be stock units or units ordered as sold orders. They could also have "availability charges" or dealer add-ons to increase the price of the vehicle. I'll admit that I'm not clued in on the distribution specifics on the GTO specifically, just speaking of what used to go on in the allocation "game". Maybe those dealers' timing in their ordering hit just right? Maybe they agreed to take a representative stock well in advance of actual production? Who know without doing some investigation, an investigation that really would not solve or prove anything.

If you're really concerned about your ordered vehicle, respectfully request the dealer operatives to log into their Internet portals and see what's going on. If it's been built? When is it scheduled to be built? Is it in transit? Where "in transit" is it? With the new capabilities of the GM computer system, they can probably find out more than they suspect they can. If they start side-stepping for some reason, then you might consider calling your local Pontiac Zone Office and ask for assistance and for them to show the dealer's operatives this new computer system's capabilities.

Perhaps the one place that Pontiac/GM really "missed the boat" was not setting up a "Port of Entry Delivery Center"? Or using some of the regional Zone Offices for this function too? In a program such as that, you could have a phone number to call to check on your vehicle's status, but all items related to the sale of the vehicle would have to be completed by the selling dealership. Having a special place to pickup your special car would be pretty neat, in my orientation.

I know it can be frustrating to be waiting, waiting, waiting for a new car to arrive that was "built for you". You can analize it and re-analize and second guess it, but the fact remains that it'll get to you when it gets to you. Even if yours is not the first one on Main Street, they will still be scarce enough that it will remain a special car. Remember too, that special order vehicle of yours should not have been subjected to any "check-out" demo drives by other potential customers that were "just looking".

I hope this might explain things a little better in some respects.

Hopefully, those of you waiting for your new GTOs will discover that it was well worth the wait.

Just some thoughts,
NTX5467



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No offense really, because I've posted longer I'm sure. But by the time anyone reads this, ALL our cars will be delivered.

And then you copy it.....I am tired and going to take a nap now.
:ph34r:

Regarding "Sold orders" verification: Dealer told me a couple years ago that GM placed random calls to individuals whose names were on vehicle orders to see if they had, in fact, really ordered the vehicle in question.

This answer was in response to me asking what prevented dealers from ordering whatever they wanted to as a "Sold Order". He did not say what happened if a dealer violated. :jumpon:

:huh: Brandon; The GTO and the Aveo do not share the same ship. They do come into the same port in California.

:laughbounce: In need of help. Here's the deal. I ordered my GTO in March, the build date was April 30th with a delivery date of 28 May. Well, you probably see where this is going. It's now the 27th of June and no car. Dealer can't give me any answers and neither can Pontiac Customer Service. I want someone in the GM corp. to know my frustration! Who can I write????????? When you can't get answers from Customer Service then what recourse do you have.
Thanks again for any help!