NewAgeGTO Exclusive
Branden Farthing

It seems the GTO has been in the media a lot due to slow sales. I thought I would do some research on the cause of this and report back to you guys. Essentially what I found was that current GTO sales numbers a little misleading. Central to this issue is that Pontiac made a commitment to it’s dealers to deliver at least one GTO to all dealers up front. What this means is that many cars from the initial runs were sent to dealers in places like Caribou, Maine and Bismark, ND, areas traditionally not RWD muscle car hot spots. These dealers, in many cases are only getting one GTO during the entire 2004 model year, so some have marked their car up way above MSRP, which only makes the car sit on lot’s longer. Dealer markup pricing as a whole also has negatively affected GTO sales. Pontiac dealers have not had a car with the GTO’s initial popularity in many years, therefore they are eager to cash in on the GTO’s limited availability and popularity. It is simple business, they would rather turn away three buyer who would buy at MSRP and sell to the one who will buy for $38,000. That being said, you don’t have to ask anyone at Pontiac to know they are not happy with the situation, however automotive dealers are independent companies, and therefore there is nothing GM can do. Also, as mentioned in other articles, launching RWD muscle cars in the winter is not ideal because few in northern areas are likely to consider them. Pontiac had a high concentration of GTO’s in Midwest areas such as Detroit initially, and the winter months slowed their sales. According to Pontiac, sales in those areas are now picking up since winter is passed. Also, now that they have sales data to work with, Pontiac is also reallocating cars to dealers in areas where they are selling well such as Southern California.

One positive thing to come from the GTO is that Pontiac sales as a whole are up this year. The Grand Am which was written off for dead with the impending G6 saw a 39.7% increase in sales over last April. Grand Prix sales were also up 35% from last April and 52% calendar year to date. Even the already brisk selling Vibe had the Vibe had it’s best April sales month ever. Pontiac sales as a whole are up 20% calendar year to date, with the only new products being the Grand Prix, and the GTO. Pontiac firmly believes that these new found sales are due to the traffic caused by the GTO’s halo effect. It can be assumed that buyers may go in to look at a GTO, but balk at the price, at which point a dealer sells them something else.

NewAgeGTO will continue to monitor the situation and report as warranted.

I can attest to dealer greed contributing to very slow turn over for these cars. Who in their right mind would pay 40K for this car? The GTO is a great car at 33,190 but a total rip off at 40 thousand. I know the folks in UK and Oz are paying more for their Monaros and for their Vauxhaul's but I think that is dictated by currency more than anything else. In the US, a person with 40 K will be looking at the entry level Vettes and European brands instead of the GTO.

Every dealer I have talked to in the West Coast, especially in Phoenix, are nothing but price gouging vultures. I have resorted to an independent 3rd party auto broker to locate my goat in the Midwest and paid a very good price for it. It is currently ordered and now I am just patiently waiting for the car to arrive at my doorsteps. I hope the GTO's in the dealer lots in LA, Las Vegas, and Phoenix rot until the cows come home and hell freezes over. In the meantime, I will be paying each and every single one of them in my Midwestern goat and give them the one finger salute. Capitalism is good. Greed is not. I mean one dealer added pinstriping, vehicle etching, and Lojack and had the nerve to put on the sticker $41,000.00!!!!! Can you believe this ****?

BTW, this is a great forum and this is my first post. Sorry about the rant but you touched a raw nerve. I hope to be an active productive forum participant from now on...even more once I start abusing, I mean driving my GTO :laughbounce:

I've said it before, the dealers can break this car more than anything else.

I can't tell you as a potential customer how many treated me very rudely, and refused to let me drive the car at all in addition to marking up the price thousands of dollars.

It was only until recently and at dealers where there is more than one in stock that the reception has been warmer and the willingness to let me drive the car has gone up.

I don't usually post to this board (ls1gto takes up more than enough of my time), but I think my GTO buying experience fits this thread very well.

I got interested in the GTO in mid-February. My father-in-law owns a very small dealership in upstate New York. Unfortunately, by the time I decided I wanted a GTO, he had already placed an order for his single GTO allocation. He ordered a black/black A4, and I wanted an Impulse Blue/blue M6. I asked him to place an order for me. He tried getting additional allocation, but after 6 weeks, my order had not been accepted by GM.

To add to the insult, Hendrick Pontiac has a very large dealership that is literally walking distance to my house in North Carolina. They had three on the lot. None of them were the color I wanted, but they had $8000 mark ups on each of them.

I started exchanging PMs with tommycap30 on ls1gto. He is Tom Capozzi and is a salesman for Spitzer Pontiac in Canton, Ohio. He had the exact car I wanted built and in the process of being shipped. Since I was going to go out of state to buy from my father-in-law, it was easy to justify buying from a different out of state dealer. I ended up buying the car from him for $500 under MSRP. I flew up to Canton with my 8 year old son (his first plane flight) and drove it back the next day.

I'm sure I'm an oddball case, going to this extreme just to get a car. I absolutely love the car, and had a great experience going to get it with my son. I would definitely do it again, but I'm not sure there are many people out there that would go to this much trouble to get a car.

I have to agree with Branden, the combination of the allocation system coupled with the greed of many of the dealers is definitely hurting the sale of this car. As a final note, I'm pretty sure that Hendrick has received 4 or 5 GTOs to date and to my knowledge has not sold one of them. I stopped by to check the other day, they still had $3000 (down from $8k) mark-ups on a couple of them and the ones that weren't marked up had several hundred miles worth of test driving on them. Except for GM's Autoshow In Motion, I have yet to see another GTO being driven besides mine.

:angry: I have to agree........auto dealers and there employees just plainly suck. I drove two hours to the Chicago auto show to the see and sit in the new GTO but the line to sit the car wasn't worht it. A few months later I head over to my local Gm dealership for parts for my Tahoe.........BESTILL MY HEART !!!!! Not one but four GTO's at the dealership and one the showroom floor. After I picked up my part I shot into the showroom floor to check it out. So just as I sit down in the front seat and close the door the salesman comes over and starts giving me the business that if your not purchasing the vehicle that I have no business in exploring. Since I was already in grumpy mood because my truck has been down for five days with electrical problems....I blasted the salesman "F*** OFF" and told him to bring his supervisor and then gave both of them a piece of my mind. Here's the good part......all four GTO's had a premium of $8500.00 each over MSRP. That's just crazy. I just hope when the GTO comes stateside that it is mass produced like the original.

It sounds like you just had a encounter with a real jerk of a salesman. When I was shopping GTOs, I stopped by Hendrick several times. I never had any intention of discussing a purchase with them since they were starting with an $8000 markup. The sales people were always friendly and helpful. When they had one in the showroom, they let us spend as much time as we wanted. My kids even test sat the rear seats. They love them by the way. After we were done crawling all over it, the salesman spent some time chatting about the car. He never tried to sell it to us or put any pressure on us. He gave us his card, but never tried to get my information. If he had started talking about a sale, I would have stopped him on the spot and told him that the markup eliminated me as a customer.

For those of you who are getting snubbed by unproffesional dealers, try ***********************. No, that's not me, just a proffesional salesman who went out of his way to let me test drive a new GTO - on salt covered roads, no less.

Tell him the "GTO Lady" sent you. (That's not me either, it's my wife and he'll know who it is).

Their number is ***********

BTW - If they don't have the color / trans you want, they'll scour the area looking for what you want. It's where I'll by my 2005.

Originally posted by Old Goat@May 25 2004, 03:49 PM
For those of you who are getting snubbed by unproffesional dealers, try ***********************. No, that's not me, just a proffesional salesman who went out of his way to let me test drive a new GTO - on salt covered roads, no less.

Tell him the "GTO Lady" sent you. (That's not me either, it's my wife and he'll know who it is).

Their number is ***********

BTW - If they don't have the color / trans you want, they'll scour the area looking for what you want. It's where I'll by my 2005.
Sorry, I had to edit your post because we have a dealer who pays for exclusive rights to sell through the dealer.

If a dealer wants to do a mark up, then they better do it relative to the original price. Want to do an $8000 mark up on a $80K+ car then i can swallow it, want to do it on a $33k car and only fools will buy.

As i am in no shape to buy a GTO for now I haven't checked out many local dealers and their prices, i know one has a $5000 mark up on their two in stock, i'll take a plane ride to any dealer with no mark up (esp. Sewell) to do business.

As for the Goat in every dealer part, even if you are in an area that is snow covered 90% of the year, a GTO to generate foot traffic will not be a bad thing for Pontiac. The brand really needs better sales, the better the sales the better the product period as GM wont be as shy about providing $$$ for projects.


James

fiction...the GTO market is for a select group for which gets smaller and smaller each and every day with gas at $2.35 per gallen...

I placed my order in April of last year ('03) with my dealer and he made sure to put my order in with GM in August of '03. I was determined to get this car one way or the other. My dealer promised to hold the MSRP and as promised, he did. He had five other GTO's sitting on the lot when mine came in. I refused the salesman offer for the extended warranty (my orginal salesman was out sick) at $1995 but waited until the fiance officer offered it to me for $1200. I also arranged for the paint and leather treatment (micro seal) for $995. I had Lojack installed by contacting them myself. I had the complete package installed for $660 and they put it in at my work. By doing this, I avoided any dealership markups well over $3000. :D

Ok once again i ask is it the dealers or GM?? With the problem on the GTO there seems to be no problems with any other cars why because GM did not put this car out right from the start with a fair rate and incentives to customers or dealers . I know dealers are there own bussiness and can sell cars for what ever they want but most gm cars have special rates and incentives. As for one GTO to each dealer just says from GM hey here is a GTO hold on to it and be sure and rip off the next fool who will buy it with a mark up// so whos fault is it?? does it realy matter and does GM care?? I also dont think sales are up at Pontiac because of slow sales from the GTO and bad press?????

Originally posted by COOL GTO@May 26 2004, 07:25 PM
fiction...the GTO market is for a select group for which gets smaller and smaller each and every day with gas at $2.35 per gallen...
Just like the Corvette market is for a select group...and it sells quite well....

I bought my GTO March 3rd, a Wednesday I had stooped buy the dealership the pervious Saturday they had two GOATS red and black. Having owned a red car before and gotten to much attention from police, I'll never own a red car ever again. I picked the black, I had decided from pontiac.com I was going to buy silver or black anyway. Back to my story, I had to visit an office on the west side of town and drove past sawmill on the way back, I stopped in the dealership there, and told my salesman that if we could complete the entire deal in under an hour I would buy. It took 56 minutes and I paid sticker and bought the extended warranty.

Since then in the last 3 months the car has proved over, and over again that it is worth every penny. Holden knows how to design and build magic on wheels. My car has done 120+ at Nelson Ledges raceway in Ohio several trips now. 110+ at BeaveRun road course west of Pittsburgh. And eaten w6’s and cobras in autocross.

Originally posted by High Octane@Jun 4 2004, 12:54 PM
Since then in the last 3 months the car has proved over, and over again that it is worth every penny. Holden knows how to design and build magic on wheels. My car has done 120+ at Nelson Ledges raceway in Ohio several trips now. 110+ at BeaveRun road course west of Pittsburgh. And eaten w6’s and cobras in autocross.
I have been to my first and only autocross event with my GTO. I really liked it and will probably try some more. Have you modded your GTO? If so, what have you done? If not, what mods do you think would be most useful for autocross?

Originally posted by Tigger@Jun 4 2004, 01:00 PM
I have been to my first and only autocross event with my GTO. I really liked it and will probably try some more. Have you modded your GTO? If so, what have you done? If not, what mods do you think would be most useful for autocross?
No mods at all, I run FS and SCCA is pretty strict about the stock classes. Wheels have to stay the same diameter and width, you can change out shocks but no engine, brake, or suspension upgrades or you lose your stock status. (this is the quick version you have to read the rules in your area, but accurate for the most part). To answer your question, tires are the biggest one thing, a nice set of kumho Victoracer V700 would yeald the best bang for the buck.

MSRP is fair or was fair..

Now that the cars are loading up at the dealerships...I can't see not getting a better then MSRP on the car.

Great car and the deals seem to be getting better.

Why a dealer would tarnish his reputation for a few dollars (market adjustment BS) is beyond me.

I would pay msrp on various cars but never over.

I had to pay over. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Originally posted by Gaijin@Jun 5 2004, 05:47 PM
I had to pay over. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
I feel your pain brother, I just saw a $2000 discount on GTO's in the paper, at the same dealer ship I bought my car at 90 days ago.

Originally posted by High Octane+Jun 5 2004, 07:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (High Octane @ Jun 5 2004, 07:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Gaijin@Jun 5 2004, 05:47 PM
I had to pay over. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
I feel your pain brother, I just saw a $2000 discount on GTO's in the paper, at the same dealer ship I bought my car at 90 days ago. [/b][/quote]
not in my area. They are still 3 over sticker and have been there for months.

I think the price at MSRP for these cars is a fair.....

Look what people were paying for WS6's in their final years....

I have tried to look at a few GTOs but always get treated like ****. I didn't have any luck with many of the bigger cities around here due to excessive mark up, but then two small town local dealers here in Iowa both got their GTOs. One small town dealer here got a torrid red GTO FIVE MONTHS AGO!!! They are selling it at MSRP, but hell, their sales staff is so rude and lazy I'd rather pay the $5,000 mark up just to go to the dealer in Cedar Rapids, at least they will give me the time of day. Well, while Cedar Rapids can't keep their GTOs on the showroom floor, the rinky-dink small town idiots still have that torrid red GTO sitting on the lot, which the owner often uses for his own personal business. I sat inside it and it already had 75 miles on it. Think I could get a test drive? Not a chance in hell, they bascially thought I had no money since i'm barely 20. I think they felt rather stupid as they stared as I drove off in my '00 Mustang GT. If they would have let me test drive it, i prolly woulda taken it home. GM needs to do something about how their dealers handle business, or they are gonna loose even more profits. If I buy a car and get good service, i'll defiently come back to that dealer. My Ford dealer has been outstanding, we've bought 6 cars from them and I'm free to take any car off the lot, no questions asked. They let us test out a '04 F-150 super crew for 3 days, and we got a used '01 King Ranch for a whole week just to make sure we liked it. Now THATS service. How do dealers expect you to buy a car with out even test driving it -- and when they do, driving it around the block doesn't cut it!

Originally posted by Branden@Jun 14 2004, 11:00 PM
I think the price at MSRP for these cars is a fair.....

Look what people were paying for WS6's in their final years....
Only a SAP pays MSRP these days. If you cant get a car for below MSRP you arent looking very hard. The new GTO needs a program for financing and leasing period. It wont sell better until they do.

I have been wanting one since whispers of the Monaro becoming the next Bitter CD2 (http://www.bittercars.com) Bitter produced a small amount of cars (2 models of about 500 each) during the 70s and 80s (I Still drive mine).

Anyway, I bugged the dealership from the time they said they would get one (Oct 2003) to when they DID get one that stayed long enough for me to sit in it March of 2004. THey havent had many in that lasted long.

I am specific too I wanted a Blue (either) in the black interior with a 6 speed.

Then I heard rumor they are making a convertible in 2006.. so I am back on hold. Rather wait and get the convertible if it comes out, if it doesn't then it sounds like I may get one cheaper.

But my main reason why they are not selling.. lack of selection. So what if a dealer has 5, if they are all red or yellow and someone wants blue then it won't sell. Especially if its marked up over invoice. Here in Richmond, I have yet to see one at a parking lot, or on the road. They are that rare.

One other thing.. the ads and everything for the GTO were when the dealers didnt have any **** cars.. NOW they don't advertise and the dealers have them. Is that stupid or what.

I think this version is only planned to go until 2007, when I heard a new rear wheel platform will be ready and a NEW GTO will be out.

Anyway, great site and look forward to being a GTO sooner than later. God is it a georgeous and comfortable car.