Bob Lutz is no fool...he knows he goofed-up with no scoops and exhaust for 2004...I wounder if he also "shed some pounds" off the car for 2005??? That would be the "right stuff"...I have a hunch...they got it right here...I am going to say 3,500.00 pounds give or take a few...Someone did the proper research to get the cosmetic effects corrected (probably read from this forum)...the extra HP was gravey...the NUMBER ONE complaint of everyone was the weight of the car...I suspect that they did it up just right...If you want the "gotta have it" punch...all that power in a lighter car would really do it...the 400 HP is "legendary"...HEMI at 340 HP sounds dull...there is no competition for this car...

I wouldn't say Luts did it right for 05, I'd say he did it right for 04. The only thing changed comsetically were probably originally planned but not available in time for the 04 production.

I also doubt the weight is down 200 LBS, I know the LS2 is lighter but I imagine not by much, and on top of that there is more body parts and thus more weight. Don't expect it to be around 3500.

Lastly the biggest compaint was not the weight, or power. Most people are happy with that, most complains from NON owners is that lack of agressive styling. From owners I would say the number one complain is probably the slow moving rear access to the back seats.

The last time I commented on the weight of the 05 GTO, I got slammed so hard in this forum. So many "experts" told me that the LS2 gives so much power and yet weighs so little.

So I guess the 05 GTO probably weighs less than some of those cute pocketbikes you see on sale at Checker's Auto Store. Wow, so much horsepower and yet weighs so little. The best of both worlds. The 05 GTO can now outrun an F16 fighter jet.

:rolleyes:
:D

Yes it weighs less, but its not like its a rotary or anything. Its still a 6.0 Liter V8.

I think some of you missed the point...I had no idea the LS2 weighs less than the LS1. I was referring to the weight of the "car" ... ie the Aussies' have ruff roads and there are stiff suspension parts...Lutz could S A V E money by using lower gage parts, some parts could be just swapped out... and he could sell that as a "plus" for 2005. I see that this is a bad scene here... How can you revive the "great one" in year 2 production??? Too little too late... This car could go down in flames as a failure...whatever happens...there will be no 2007 GTO...they shot the whole wad right here...a 450 Judge is not even neccessary...400 is enough...

"most complains from NON owners is that lack of agressive styling."

That's probably why they are non-owners. If more people liked it, sales would be better. Some people care about how a car looks, not just how fast it is.

What are you talking about? The GTO is in contract to go untill 07. They won't bother changing out parts from the holden as its still made by Holden and they don't want to bother with the costs of changing the production of the car.

First you like the 05, now your saying its to little to late?

I think all owners or potential owners care about how a car looks, look at the Aztec, but I think those who didn't care for the styling were more vocal than those who did. I know plenty of people who like the scoopless hood, where in other who don't. Key example is GM making the scoops an option.

The 05 will be about the same weight as the 04. It could weigh 50 more it could weigh 50 less. For the record the 2005 Ordering Information still lists the weight at 3725 lbs., the same as 2004.

A weight reduction of 200 pounds would have been mentioned in the 2005 information. There has been no information on using lighter parts or dropping parts to save weight. Basically the 2005 will weigh the same as the 2004. In fact if you go with the Autocross kit I would venture to say that it will be slightly heavier than the 2004.

there will be no 2007 GTO.

It's too early to say that.

a 450 Judge is not even neccessary...400 is enough...


Correction, you never can have enough horsepower. A 450 HP Judge would fit right in as a late model 2005 or 2006.

Originally posted by COOL GTO@Aug 2 2004, 09:16 PM
I think some of you missed the point...I had no idea the LS2 weighs less than the LS1. I was referring to the weight of the "car" ... ie the Aussies' have ruff roads and there are stiff suspension parts...Lutz could S A V E money by using lower gage parts, some parts could be just swapped out... and he could sell that as a "plus" for 2005. I see that this is a bad scene here... How can you revive the "great one" in year 2 production??? Too little too late... This car could go down in flames as a failure...whatever happens...there will be no 2007 GTO...they shot the whole wad right here...a 450 Judge is not even neccessary...400 is enough...
Hmmm...

Originally posted by TandA@Aug 2 2004, 10:03 PM
Some people care about how a car looks, not just how fast it is.
Hmmm... :D

Originally posted by Nocturn@Aug 2 2004, 10:09 PM
What are you talking about? The GTO is in contract to go untill 07. They won't bother changing out parts from the holden as its still made by Holden and they don't want to bother with the costs of changing the production of the car.

First you like the 05, now your saying its to little to late?

I think all owners or potential owners care about how a car looks, look at the Aztec, but I think those who didn't care for the styling were more vocal than those who did. I know plenty of people who like the scoopless hood, where in other who don't. Key example is GM making the scoops an option.
key example is the scoops are a standard option that the first batch will all have, only later can you get scoop delete. I think the scoops will be very very popular on the 05s.

I do not doubt that, but the fact that its an option at all means that a good deal of people like it without.

I agree with the weight issue. Certainly a bump to 400 HP is great but the car is overweight. As for the styling? Not all of us are muscle car guys. I just removed the spoiler from my 04 Black M6. I think the car looks better without it - an opinion shared by many in Australia. I bought the car because of the unique combination of 1.) good handling; 2.) Good interior execution; 3.) Great seats; 4.) Drive train and ...price. After 25+ years of driving Benz and BMW I am very well pleased. I have almost 8K miles on my GTO in 3 months. I hear most complaints from those who have never driven the car!

Originally posted by porthos@Aug 3 2004, 08:45 PM
I have almost 8K miles on my GTO in 3 months.
Thats a testiment to the car if I ever heard one!

Originally posted by COOL GTO@Aug 3 2004, 02:16 AM
I think some of you missed the point...I had no idea the LS2 weighs less than the LS1. I was referring to the weight of the "car" ... ie the Aussies' have ruff roads and there are stiff suspension parts...Lutz could S A V E money by using lower gage parts, some parts could be just swapped out... and he could sell that as a "plus" for 2005. I see that this is a bad scene here... How can you revive the "great one" in year 2 production??? Too little too late... This car could go down in flames as a failure...whatever happens...there will be no 2007 GTO...they shot the whole wad right here...a 450 Judge is not even neccessary...400 is enough...
No GTO in 07??? LOL!! Your clueless.

Nocturn,
Funny you mention the rotary being so much lighter. Actually the Ls1 weighs in almost the same as the last turbo rotary with twin turbos, and associated hardware. All the guys on the rx-7 forum were sayng the same thing till someone weight the 2 side by side... sorry, I know its a little off-topic

Well I was going off the RX8's Non turbo ;) But The Rotary from the RX7 only weighs in at about 200 some odd LBS.

For what it's worth, MotorWeek says that the LS2 is 15 lbs lighter than the LS1. Not a whole lot when you consider that 3 gal of gas weighs about 17 lbs, and a tank of gas in the GTO weighs 106 lbs. But then, every little bit helps.