(Hope this is the correct place to post this).

Well, I really didn’t mean to cause such a stir about my 2005 Mustang post. You have to understand that to us nostalgic Pontiac folks, the “GTO” is an icon. Any new car with that name being introduced 30 years after the last GTO is going to (understandably) be looked with a critical eye – as viewed from the past. (Actually, some Pontiac purists maintain that the last Pontiacs are those that had a real Pontiac engines it them, rather than the “corporate” engines of today.)

To the Ferrari folks, Pontiac stole and corrupted the name of their very rare car. Car and Driver magazine did a heads-up test between a 64 Pontiac GTO and a Ferrari GTO. Talk about flaming mail! That one issue actually launched the magazine to what it is today.

I grew up in the muscle car era, which, by the way, Pontiac started by stuffing a 389 cubic inch engine in a Tempest. Yes, the Pontiac GTO was the first muscle car. It started a move in the automotive industry that lasted for a decade.

Back then, you could really tell the difference between different makes and models. All cars did not look like they were designed from a jellybean. I think that’s why the retro-movement has been so popular (so far) in the automotive industry (the PT Cruiser, Chevy SSR, Chrysler 300 and Prowler, 05 Mustang, etc.). Some people actually want a car that doesn’t look like the cookie-cutter car everyone else is driving. And, they want the superior handling and braking while maintaining some resemblance of an era gone by that has so many great memories for them.

I think this (the design decision) is what makes that car business so risky. Many a model has caused carmakers to suck it up and try again. The infamous Edsel is an example. And, if you study the history of the business, you’ll see just how risky a design (and name) can be.

So (IMO), I wish Pontiac had made the model much more distinctive or simply chose another name from the past, like maybe 2+2, for example. Since they chose not too, I’ll just have to get used to it (Anyway, the new Grand Prix looks nothing like it’s forerunner, the ‘62, which (IMO) is the most beautiful Pontiac ever produced).

One more thing on the “retro” cars; check out the Barrett – Jackson auto auctions and see what’s bringing in the BIG money.

BTW - If you have a chance, get to the Pontiac Nationals this weekend at Norwalk Raceway! http://www.norwalkraceway.com/node/view/779

I'm with you Old Goat! But I even take it further. The only reason the GTO is credited with starting the muscle car era is because a few yahoos in the motoring press said so. There certainly WERE other powerful muscle cars (she's so fine my 409) before Johnny D put the 389 in a tempest. C'est La Vie!

And I also agree that I wish the new GTO was more distinctively style. This jellybean craze going around the industry is stupid. But I don't dislike the looks enough to keep me from buying a 2005, which I definitely will be doing!

The reason why the GTO is the first muscle car is not because it was the first high performance cars. There were cars that came before it such as the 300s and 409s but they were full size cars, that were very expensive. The GTO on the other hand was a mid size making it much more affordable and faster. The definition of a muscle car is a mid size, high performance, big block, 2 door, that was aimed and marketed towards the youth and performance crowds. It also had to be a Regular Production car that was easily obtainable and drivable. No car before the 64 GTO fit this description. After the GTO a slew of competitors came out to compete. Eventuale Big block pony cars started to become pinned as muscle cars as well.

I don't think anyone here would disagree with you, but from a simple sales point of view Pontiac wanted a long term image builder, Like the viper for instance. Retro sales are proven to start off high and then quickly fade away unless you bring in new models (turbo/convertible) to bring back new customers. Pontiac didn't want that, they wanted A strong performance image that they could carry through the years. The 05 stang may have a performance image but you can't get away from its retro styling and in comming years it will look even more dated. Retro styling leaves you stuck in retro styling, with no where to cange body lines or styles without leaving retro styling. If the GTO was this way you would unlikely see any past the 07 mark, which GM is planning on going past that and perhaps makign another 35 year long tradition of high performance pontiacs.

I believe that a car can be made distinctive without using a retro design. So the fact that your whole argument depends on that makes it pretty weak.

I think that Pontiac just wanted to come out a little safe. Which they succeeded in doing. (maybe too safe) If the rumors are true that the 07 model will be american designed and built then I would hope they take a chance and make it distinctive, add a convertible to the line and a judge using the 427 that the Z06 is going to get.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Aug 6 2004, 06:06 PM
I don't think anyone here would disagree with you, but from a simple sales point of view Pontiac wanted a long term image builder, Like the viper for instance. Retro sales are proven to start off high and then quickly fade away unless you bring in new models (turbo/convertible) to bring back new customers. Pontiac didn't want that, they wanted A strong performance image that they could carry through the years. The 05 stang may have a performance image but you can't get away from its retro styling and in comming years it will look even more dated. Retro styling leaves you stuck in retro styling, with no where to cange body lines or styles without leaving retro styling. If the GTO was this way you would unlikely see any past the 07 mark, which GM is planning on going past that and perhaps makign another 35 year long tradition of high performance pontiacs.
Agreed. Retro starts out big. If the 04 GTO was say a retro version of a 64 or 67 or a 69 it would have sold probably alot better than the current car. But after a few years people would get sick of it. I feel if you want an old GTO get one. There great cars. You want a modern GTO than get on of those.