I just discovered something that has me really bothered and should concern everyone who owns a new GTO.

The Holden Monaro comes standard with side air bags with head protection (in addition to the dash ones) but on the GTO it is not even offerred !!! When I first checked out the GTO and noticed that it did not have additional safety features like side air bags, I figured that it was because they did not have them in Australia (sorry, don't mean to offend anyone in Australia), but now I find out that not only do they have them, thy're standard.

Why did GM see fit to provide us with less protection ?? Has anyone been hurt in a GTO yet ??? What's going to happen as soon as the trail lawyers get a hold of this ???

If you think that the hood scoops or engine might hurt your resale value, wait until this hits 60 minutes. Guess what that will do to all of our resale value !!??

Lutz had a great idea and provided us with a great car, but it seems that the accountants have ruined it for all of us. :jumpon:

I think that GM should immediately reto-fit all GTO's with side airbags.

Whoooaaa there cowboy. :)

Let's take this one step at a time, maybe I can shed a little light.

The Holden Monaro comes standard with side air bags with head protection (in addition to the dash ones) but on the GTO it is not even offerred !!! When I first checked out the GTO and noticed that it did not have additional safety features like side air bags, I figured that it was because they did not have them in Australia (sorry, don't mean to offend anyone in Australia), but now I find out that not only do they have them, thy're standard.

First thing you have to remember is that Australia and the USA have 2 entirely different sets of safety standards. Sure they have side airbags, BUT the gas tank of the 04 and prior Monaros have the gas tank in BACK of the rear axle. That means in the case of a rear collision the tank has a greater chance of becoming ruptured and exploding. This sure doesn't sound too safe of our Aussie friends now does it? Whereas we get our tank in front of the axle in the trunk. (There goes our trunk space, but hey it's safer than the Aussie version) Secondly, along those same lines. After the GTO was built out of the Monaro, it had to go through OUR (U.S.) crash test standards. Lutz wanted to hurry the GTO here that's why we have a single side rear exhaust outlet and NO scoops for 04. It was because of crash test standards and they didn't have the dual exit rear fascia and hood with scoops ready to be certified for the 2004 model. SO, with that said I would guess that the side curtain airbags on the Monaro were not approved for the 2004 GTO, but may be in the future.

Why did GM see fit to provide us with less protection ?? Has anyone been hurt in a GTO yet ??? What's going to happen as soon as the trail lawyers get a hold of this ???

Have you looked at GM's other models recently to see how many offer side airbags? If they do and there are few it is an option.

If you think that the hood scoops or engine might hurt your resale value, wait until this hits 60 minutes. Guess what that will do to all of our resale value !!??


This one is a non issue. I guess 60 minutes better get ready for a lot of stories because I'd venture to say 90% of vehicles on the road today DON'T have side airbags.

Lutz had a great idea and provided us with a great car, but it seems that the accountants have ruined it for all of us.*

What exactly has been ruined? I'm sorry but that statement is preposterous.

I think that GM should immediately reto-fit all GTO's with side airbags.

Should GM retrofit side air bags in all new Malibu's if the customer did not order/request them? Should GM retrofit side air bags in all new Grand Prix's if the customer did not order/request them? How about my 1999 Grand Prix? Should GM retrofit a system that was not even offered? How about my 1976 El Camino, it doesn't even have driver or passenger airbags should it be retrofitted?

OK, I know I've been a hard @$$ on you about this one. But I'm just trying to get you to think about what you are suggesting. I'm using these last ridiculous examples to prove a point. And I do understand where you are coming from. It WOULD be nice if side air bags were available. But they are not. It's not GM's fault and no they don't want you injured. Maybe the bean counters did axe the side airbags. But I must say truthfully if you are truly so worried about side impact collisions then I guess the GTO is not for you. Go find yourself a vehicle that has them if that is your priority.

Again I know I'm being hard nosed here, but I just want you to step back and look at this from a different angle. Please don't take this as a flame or personal attack, that truly is not my intent. I can understand that you think the GTO should have side airbags, I just feel your reasons are unjustified and unreasonable at this time. Feel free to debate me on this one. I'd like to. I'm really not trying to be a jerk, understand??? B)

OK off the soapbox. :) :) :)

Whoooaaa there cowboy.

What he said :)

very well said OO. Also keep in mind the Monaro in Australia is positioned at a higher luxury level than the GTO. Same car, two very very different markets.

The GTO sells in the US for a few thousand $US less than the base Monaro in Australia and it gets a more powerful engine. And when it comes to the 05 and its 400 horses you can pay up to DOUBLE the cost of a GTO for the range topping HSV GTS.

As much as some people complain about the price, the overall package GM has provided is extremely good and will only continue to get better if the 05 is a guide to the future.

James

This sure doesn't sound too safe of our Aussie friends now does it?

Well im Australian and there are heaps of Monaros on the roads and i dont remember any of them turning into a fireball in the event of a rear end collision. Im pretty sure all the Americans have achieved with a differently placed fuel tank is a severe decrease in boot (trunk) space.

Originally posted by radczr@Aug 9 2004, 09:43 PM
If you think that the hood scoops or engine might hurt your resale value, wait until this hits 60 minutes. Guess what that will do to all of our resale value !!??

I think that GM should immediately reto-fit all GTO's with side airbags.
I'M not worried about the resale value at all...I'm probably going to have this car for a LOOONG TIME...maybe untill it's a classic all over again. ;)

As for side air bags...doesn't really bother me.I mean look at it, it's a 400 horsepower monster (SPORTCAR),I don't mean that in a bad way either!If I was concerned that much about side impact safety for the same price, I'd be looking at buying a lower end Cadi'.

Originally posted by Gibbsy@Aug 10 2004, 06:54 PM
Im pretty sure all the Americans have achieved with a differently placed fuel tank is a severe decrease in boot (trunk) space.
I concur.

I want my trunk space. :angry:

The Australian Monaro's side air bags were not included in the GTO because they do not meet US regulations for side air bags.

That means by US regulations the GTO IS safer than the Monaro.

Of course by Australian regulations the Monaro is safer than the GTO.

Im pretty sure all the Americans have achieved with a differently placed fuel tank is a severe decrease in boot (trunk) space.

In the 24 years i lived down under, and the 5 years since keeping up with news in Sydney... i can't recall a car fire caused by a rear end collision, there have been fires for sure, but at least none caused by a rear end hit.

Also it astounds me at how many roll over accidents there are in the US, i guess American cars have the center of gravity in the roof as they always seem to be rolling over... wierd!

As to side air bags and safety....only really helps in a side on collision, and the deployment of air bags does wonders to increase the cost of the repair, assuming your car gets repair by a reputable repair shop who will actually replace the airbag and not just put on a cover.

James

See SUV's...I love how it makes people feel safe, but actually leads to a higher probablility of being turned over.

It would only make you feel safer if EVERYONE else wasn't also driving a huge monstrosity of an SUV.

Australian spec airbags are very very different to US items. Mainly due to the fact Australian airbags are setup to assume the driver is wearing a seatbelt. So they don't depoly as rapidly and in minor accidents not at all. US airbags are setup to assume the driver isn't wearing a seat belt so they deploy faster at a higher preasure. Its not a simple case of bolting the monaro's into the GTO they have to be engineered for the US market and pass all the US saftey regs.

legally. Do seatbelts have to be worn in the states?

I believe all states now have seatbelt laws.

legally. Do seatbelts have to be worn in the states?

I don't know if i am going to use the correct terms, but over here they have primary and secondary offences, alot of states have the compulsory seat belt wearing as a secondary offence, which means they cant pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt, but if they pull you over for a primary offence (i.e. speeding) then they can also ticket you for the lack of seatbelts.

Mind you, having grown up in Aus with compulsory seat belt wearing i would love them to make it a primary offence and so on, it astounds me to watch people driving around on the interstates at 70mph or more with kinds unrestrained and walking around in the back seat, so many people get killed up here because they cant be bothered to put on a seat belt.

I will get off my soap box now... :)

Back to the topic at hand, the differences between the safety regulations must get annoying, it would be nice to see all major countries get together and come up with common standards for safety to reduce the cost of development and customisation required to export to various countries. No doubt, the Audies, BMW's, Mercedes' of the world would enjoy such a change.

James

Basically a bit of what everyone said above. Australian airbags deploy slower and have a higher activation speed due to our compulsory seatbelt laws, research shows the seatbelt to be the most effective method of occupant protection. American airbags do not pass Australian standards apparently because they can do more harm than good if you are wearing a seatbelt in a low speed collision and Australian airbags do not pass US standards because they would deploy too slowly for an unrestrained occupant at speed. Its all about differing laws.

The fuel tank positioning is I think a result of litigation at some time in the US. Other than Hollywood I have never seen a car explode in a normal traffic accident and even cars near destroyed by rear end impact rarely catch fire. It may be that data indicates a higher proportion of rear end collisons in US traffic conditions or perhaps a higher average collision speed.

In any case there's more to it than just leaving the stuff on the car and exporting it.