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: Here come da' Judge


salbracht
08-12-2004, 03:18 PM
FOR RELEASE: 2004-08-11

GM Powered Vehicles Descend on 10th Annual Woodward Dream Cruise

DETROIT - General Motors will display more than 125 GM Powered classic, production, race and concept vehicles at the 10th Annual Woodward Dream Cruise Aug. 19-21 in the Detroit area.

GM vehicles and events will be centered at the Birmingham Triangle, where Woodward and Old Woodward meet in Birmingham; Memorial Park, just north of 13 Mile Road in Royal Oak; and Athens Coney Island, south of 14 Mile Road.

"Woodward Avenue has a special spot in the history of General Motors, and our Corvettes, GTOs, Camaros, Firebirds, Cadillacs, among others, have left an indelible mark on the soul of Woodward," said Bill O'Neill, executive director, GM communications. "This is a celebration of the cars, the enthusiasts and the people who helped design, engineer and build these cars and trucks. I can't imagine it taking place in any other city, or without major GM involvement."

This year, vehicles as old as a 1905 Buick Model C and 1941 GMC Stake Truck and as new as the 2005 6.0-liter Chevy SSR and the 2006 Pontiac Solstice will be part of the GM exhibit. In addition, the GM Performance Division will have new concept versions of the Pontiac GTO and Chevy Colorado pickup on display.

On Friday, Aug. 20, at 3:00 p.m., Chevy will unveil the new 2005 6.0-liter, 6-speed manual SSR to the media, to be followed at approximately 3:45 p.m. by a police-escorted SSR parade that will run from the Renaissance Center up Woodward to Athens Coney Island. The parade will feature production, pace car and Signature Series SRR models. A private "VIN Gets You In" party will take place at Athens for SSR owners from 4:00 to 8:00 p.m.

Here's a look at what Cruise attendees will see from GM on Saturday, Aug. 21:

Athens Coney Island (on Woodward south of 14 Mile Road) will serve as a venue for GM's corporate display, highlighting GM performance vehicles. Some of these include the 2006 Pontiac Solstice, the 2004 Chevy Nomad, and Bonneville Salt Flat record vehicles.

Athens also will feature two new GM Performance Division vehicles: a modified Pontiac GTO and Chevy Colorado pickup.

The GTO concept has a 6.3-liter V-8 engine with 500 horsepower at 5200 rpm and 500 lb.-ft. of torque at 5000 rpm. It also has a six-speed manual transmission, modified brakes, bigger wheels and tires and new exhaust. The bright orange exterior features a new hood, fender, quarter panel, spoiler, front and rear fascia and rockers.

The Chevy Colorado concept has a 6.2-liter engine that makes 420 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 420 lb.-ft. of torque at 4600 rpm. The wheels and tires, brakes, suspension and exhaust systems have been modified, and the exterior has new front fascias, front and rear wheel flares, hood, modified rockers and custom side mirrors.

The modified GTO and Colorado are "Employee Enthusiasm" vehicles, an internal volunteer program that gives younger GM engineers the opportunity to manage a concept car from start to finish. The first public showing for the vehicles will be at a Woodward Dream Cruise press conference at 11:00 a.m., Tuesday, Aug. 17 at Pioneer Park in Royal Oak. They will then be on display at Athens Coney Island throughout the Cruise.

At Memorial Park North (at the corner of 13 Mile and Woodward), GM Powertrain will feature a display marking the 50th anniversary of the small-block engine, an enduring benchmark for performance. In addition, 25 employee vehicles will be showcased as part of GM's fourth annual classic car contest for employees, called "Passion for the Vehicle."

The Make-A-Wish Foundation of Michigan will have a booth at Memorial Park North and will be selling raffle tickets to raise funds. Prizes include an Aruba get-away and a 1967 classic Corvette convertible. Visitors can learn more about the group's work to grant the wishes of children with life-threatening medical conditions.

At Memorial Park South (at the corner of 13 Mile and Woodward), Pontiac, GMC and Buick will feature family entertainment including clowns, balloon animals, face painting, roaming magicians and mimes from 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. The festivities also include live music, with free concerts from noon until 8:00 p.m. by the Teen Angels and Three Men and a Tenor.

Throughout the GM area, historic, current production and privately owned Pontiac, Buick and GMC vehicles will be on display. Models include key historic Pontiacs, such as several classic GTOs, a rare 1969 Custom S, a 1971 T-37, one of only 223 WS-6-equipped 1998 Formula Firebirds, and a 1962 Catalina, among others. Classic GMC trucks will be represented by a 1941 Stake Truck and a 1956 pickup.

In celebration of Buick's 100-year history, a 1905 Model C will be on display, as well as a 1936 Century convertible, 1953 Skylark, 1955 Century, 1970 GSX, and a 1987 GNX.

As in past years, Chevy will be stationed at The Triangle, located in Birmingham where Old Woodward and New Woodward meet. Chevy's display focuses on heritage, power and performance and integrates the American Revolution ad campaign. It will feature Chevy racing, XM Satellite Radio, OnStar and new and vintage merchandise displays. Chevrolet's 10 new vehicles will be on display, as well as vintage and current race cars and classic cars from Chevrolet club members. The classics include a 1960 Corvette, 1963 Corvette split-window coupe, a 1969 Camaro Copo, a 1967 Nova, a 1959 Impala, a 1970 Chevelle and more. Several classics owned by Chevrolet employees also will be on display, including a 1935 street rod, 1955 Bel Air Pro Street, a 1957 Bel Air and various muscle cars.

WOMC will be broadcasting live from Athens Coney Island on Friday from 3:00 to 7:00 p.m. and from The Triangle on Saturday from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m.

General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world's largest vehicle manufacturer, employs about 325,000 people globally. Founded in 1908, GM has been the global automotive sales leader since 1931. GM today has manufacturing operations in 32 countries and its vehicles are sold in 192 countries. In 2003, GM sold nearly 8.6 million cars and trucks, about 15 percent of the global vehicle market. GM's global headquarters are at the GM Renaissance Center in Detroit. More information on GM and its products can be found on the company's corporate website at www.gm.com.

fastcop
08-12-2004, 03:37 PM
The modified GTO and Colorado are "Employee Enthusiasm" vehicles, an internal volunteer program that gives younger GM engineers the opportunity to manage a concept car from start to finish.

Well, it seems that this volunteer program is the only thing giving GM face value with the younger generation (and everyone else too, i guess) that wants some of these kick @$$ cars for under 45-50k.

But, aside from my feelings.....
The GTO concept has a 6.3-liter V-8 engine with 500 horsepower at 5200 rpm and 500 lb.-ft. of torque at 5000 rpm. It also has a six-speed manual transmission, modified brakes, bigger wheels and tires and new exhaust. The bright orange exterior features a new hood, fender, quarter panel, spoiler, front and rear fascia and rockers.

:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:

The only question left in my mind is how long from concept to reality. 3yrs-('07 model year)?

Orbit Orange
08-12-2004, 03:55 PM
All rise...........

Very Interesting. We all know this is going to happen, the question though is when and how much $$$$$. :)

If I had to guess I'd say as early as next year. Model Year 2006, so a possible late 2005 debut??? All speculation though.

sierra5235
08-12-2004, 04:00 PM
When the 500hp Judge comes out, we will have a bunch of 05 folks crying over here saying 'Poor me"......

Then the 04 owners will chime in and say, now you know how we feel.

I guess this car is going to get better and better every passing year after all.

I would take an orangeJudge for 40K

geekoid
08-12-2004, 05:16 PM
I'll take one, please.

I wonder what it is going to look like with new fenders and quarter panels, in addition to the hood and body kit. I am looking forward to seeing it.

500hp just rocks. :dribble:

04GOATGERM
08-12-2004, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by sierra5235@Aug 12 2004, 03:00 PM
When the 500hp Judge comes out, we will have a bunch of 05 folks crying over here saying 'Poor me"......

Then the 04 owners will chime in and say, now you know how we feel.

I guess this car is going to get better and better every passing year after all.

I would take an orangeJudge for 40K
No no no...I'll definately be happy with a 400hp 2005. Yes maybe a little jealous, but I'm not gonna cry about it. Plus I couldn't afford forking out another 5k. I look at it this way...I'm lucky that I can (barely) afford 35k. :rolleyes:

It is exciting news though.

sierra5235
08-12-2004, 06:30 PM
So you know for sure that they are going to sell the 05's for 35K MSRP in Guam? You are lucky. The dealers in the lower 48 are probably going to mark them up. Good for you.

Goat Lover
08-12-2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by salbracht@Aug 12 2004, 02:18 PM
The GTO concept has a 6.3-liter V-8 engine with 500 horsepower at 5200 rpm and 500 lb.-ft. of torque at 5000 rpm. It also has a six-speed manual transmission, modified brakes, bigger wheels and tires and new exhaust. The bright orange exterior features a new hood, fender, quarter panel, spoiler, front and rear fascia and rockers.
...
The modified GTO and Colorado are "Employee Enthusiasm" vehicles, an internal volunteer program that gives younger GM engineers the opportunity to manage a concept car from start to finish. The first public showing for the vehicles will be at a Woodward Dream Cruise press conference at 11:00 a.m., Tuesday, Aug. 17 at Pioneer Park in Royal Oak. They will then be on display at Athens Coney Island throughout the Cruise.
B) :woot: :afro: :friday: :dribble:

04GOATGERM
08-12-2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by sierra5235@Aug 12 2004, 05:30 PM
So you know for sure that they are going to sell the 05's for 35K MSRP in Guam? You are lucky. The dealers in the lower 48 are probably going to mark them up. Good for you.
No, they don't even sell them here in Guam...no Pontiac's at the GM dealership. <_< If they did sell them here I'd already have an'04 GTO.

I'm moving back to the States in January. I'll be getting an awsome deal for the '05 because my father is an engineer for GM Powertrain. :friday:

desertgoat
08-12-2004, 08:35 PM
500/500???

That's Viper territory. Of course, the Judge would be several hundred pounds heavier. Very nice. Looks like the Judge version is the one I'd be gunning for, unless I already supercharged my 04 then it would be a moot point.

bluemax
08-12-2004, 08:42 PM
Did anyone notice anything funny about the rpms for the hp and torque peaks? They seem very low to me. for the displacement. If the engine is really 6.3 liters, then the hp would peak quite a bit higher. Now if it is a 7.0 liter engine, then I might believe the numbers, but even then they are low in my opinion.

CTSilverGoat
08-13-2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by sierra5235@Aug 12 2004, 03:00 PM
Then the 04 owners will chime in and say, now you know how we feel.


I love my 04. I don't ever think "oh, if I had only waited a little longer."

salbracht
08-13-2004, 01:27 PM
Everybody can interpret the news release differently, but I did not interpret this to mean that they would be releasing to the public any of the items that will make this GTO special. I was assuming it was to be a one-off like that white with blue stripe heritage Trans Am or the blue and yellow Camaro they did a couple years ago. I was just thinking that some gear-heads inside GM were given some money to customize a GTO to take to Woodward for the good press.

I am anxious to see it however. If it goes over well (specifically the styling changes) then I'm sure some companies will offer similar products within a year or so. Your probably on your own to get your LS2 to put out 500 horses.

Steve

fastcop
08-13-2004, 04:06 PM
Hey salbracht, thanks for the info.....
it's exciting news regardless. :woot:

1964GTO
08-13-2004, 05:14 PM
I am gussing the price to be in the 40-45 section.

Zero4
08-14-2004, 03:39 AM
500hp is great, but lose some weight.

DEICHEVY
08-14-2004, 04:37 PM
Need to make em in the USA. Better yet, Pontiac where they were born.
Remember Plant 8

Firehawk
08-14-2004, 10:40 PM
Somebody mentioned the HP and Torque rating and a peculiar RPM Level.

No, thats totally realistic. It depends on the engineering purpose of an engine.

Look at it this way:
Engines used mainly for pulling purposes are designed to peak torque and HP at low RPM for a faster acceleration rate, but there they lose top end do to a low RPM travel in the engine.
EXAMPLE
The Original Muscle cars
Usually peak around 52-5800 RPM great Quarter mile machines but peaking speed at about 120-130mph.

Engines designed to carry a high top speed will usually peak around 7-8000rpm but lose acceleration due to peak torque not appearing early. But a later appearance allows for a power range hit to occur whn already at a high speed.
Unless you get into V10-12 you're talking anther 1500 RPM per pair extra cylinders.

But dont start thinking the 500hp GTO will accelerate slower, no it won't
we're still talking 500hp vs. 400hp. More Horsepower per RPM as well as Torque

This isnt Scale or real but think like this and looky here:
(bear with me my numbers really suck)

Imagine
LS2 400HP

3000RPM 4000RPM 5000RPM 6000RPM+
150HP 250HP 320HP 400HP^
peak

NOW THINK
LS7 500HP

3000RPM 4000RPM 5000RPM 6000RPM 7000RPM
175HP 320HP 400HP 475 HP ^ 500HP
peak

I know my numbers suck but can you see what I mean????
Displacement usually adds a few more RPM
Cylinders add an assload
And that is alleyway education for you man now you have atleast I hope some poor vague idea on how this works

ANYWAY Finally some news on the Judge and in America even.............

Nocturn
08-14-2004, 11:19 PM
I think rear end gearing has a bit more to do with it than engine RPM. Old Muscle cars used to come with 4.10 and 3.90 rear gears now the highest usually seen is a 3.42

salbracht
08-16-2004, 08:56 AM
Did anybody take any pictures on Saturday? I am dying to see this car.

Steve

Firehawk
08-16-2004, 09:47 AM
I knew somebody would say something about gears, that has to do with how fast you hit your peak RPM though, not what your peak RPM is.

But now I'm confused I've seen written this "LS7" peaks at 5200 and that it peaks at 6500.

Either one is cool, but 5200 is a little cooler. Sure you'd top at about 170-180 but you'd quarter mile in a high eleven!
STOCK

And what would that size make the LS7, a 396, a 400 is a 6.6, 6.0 is 389????

1964GTO
08-16-2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by Firehawk@Aug 16 2004, 08:47 AM
I knew somebody would say something about gears, that has to do with how fast you hit your peak RPM though, not what your peak RPM is.

But now I'm confused I've seen written this "LS7" peaks at 5200 and that it peaks at 6500.

Either one is cool, but 5200 is a little cooler. Sure you'd top at about 170-180 but you'd quarter mile in a high eleven!
STOCK

And what would that size make the LS7, a 396, a 400 is a 6.6, 6.0 is 389????
6.5 liter is 389, although i did here a 6.6 is a 400

F1GT
08-16-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Firehawk@Aug 14 2004, 09:40 PM
Somebody mentioned the HP and Torque rating and a peculiar RPM Level.

No, thats totally realistic. It depends on the engineering purpose of an engine.

Look at it this way:
Engines used mainly for pulling purposes are designed to peak torque and HP at low RPM for a faster acceleration rate, but there they lose top end do to a low RPM travel in the engine.
EXAMPLE
The Original Muscle cars
Usually peak around 52-5800 RPM great Quarter mile machines but peaking speed at about 120-130mph.

Engines designed to carry a high top speed will usually peak around 7-8000rpm but lose acceleration due to peak torque not appearing early. But a later appearance allows for a power range hit to occur whn already at a high speed.
Unless you get into V10-12 you're talking anther 1500 RPM per pair extra cylinders.

But dont start thinking the 500hp GTO will accelerate slower, no it won't
we're still talking 500hp vs. 400hp. More Horsepower per RPM as well as Torque

This isnt Scale or real but think like this and looky here:
(bear with me my numbers really suck)

Imagine
LS2 400HP

3000RPM 4000RPM 5000RPM 6000RPM+
150HP 250HP 320HP 400HP^
peak

NOW THINK
LS7 500HP

3000RPM 4000RPM 5000RPM 6000RPM 7000RPM
175HP 320HP 400HP 475 HP ^ 500HP
peak

I know my numbers suck but can you see what I mean????
Displacement usually adds a few more RPM
Cylinders add an assload
And that is alleyway education for you man now you have atleast I hope some poor vague idea on how this works

ANYWAY Finally some news on the Judge and in America even.............
sorry buddy, but this doesn't make much sense. More displacement = higher rpms?? What about those little Honda motors peaking at 8000 for 2.0 liters?? I personally think it has to do with how well the motor "breathes". That is why OHC motors rev up higher, because 2 for intake and 2 for exhaust gets more air moving than 1 bigger valve for intake and exhaust. Also a lot of todays multi cam motors have two stage cam profiles and now variable valve timing.

Nocturn
08-16-2004, 08:37 PM
Agreed, another reason for example, is that DOHC engines have a higher redline than pushrod engines.

6.6-400 CU
60.60 CU per liter of displacment.

6.0-363
6.3-381
7.0-424