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Nice wide-body kit, though the wheel offset or width could use some work, the fenders on top are wider than the tire...

I still dont like the rear! :jumpon: :tongue: :angry: <_<
But that thing is bad a$$ otherthan the exhaust and spoiler...I wont repost all the crop fromt he other thread here so if you havenbt read it go read it if u want my opinion... and that's just what all this (what im saying), my opinion ;)

Thanks for the pics.

Interesting intake. I don't object to it. And I'm leaning towards liking it.

Maybe they could have called it a "Bi-Power 389" ;)

I won't rehash my other thoughts in the other thread either.

By the way did you catch the price on the For Sale sign in the Orbit Orange Judge? That is my classic GTO dream ride. :D

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Aug 21 2004, 11:11 PM
Thanks for the pics.

Interesting intake. I don't object to it. And I'm leaning towards liking it.

Maybe they could have called it a "Bi-Power 389" ;)

I won't rehash my other thoughts in the other thread either.

By the way did you catch the price on the For Sale sign in the Orbit Orange Judge? That is my classic GTO dream ride. :D
it looks to be in great shape. I would say that if its a ram air 3 #match then its probably in the 35-40 range. If its a ram air 4 #match i would guess in the 75-80 range. Know this would be if the car was in like my 64s condition. Solid number 2 car. Great for showing but not overdone or fresh of restoration. Know I have seen a 70 ram air 3 judge, fresh off restoration( it was atoll blue which i actually like a little better than orbit oragne). This car was perfect. He used to put mirrors underneath so you could see the bottom. Every little thing was marked in the engine bay with dates and stuff. He got 60 for it over a year ago. I just saw a 70 455, white with red top and red interior( cool combo). He wanted 30 something for it and it wasnt a judge.

The orange prototype above looks pretty slick, but the fender flares are a bit overkill IMO but dont count them out completely. I'd also like to see the same car with some sidepipes which would really set it off and keep the rear clean. I'm not so keen on the tinted tail lights either, but that isnt street legal to begin with so it would never make production like that anyhow. (Assuming any of this car made it to production.) So long as the power under the hood backed up the looks, i dont think anyone would question it... :D

...sidepipes?...Some sidepipes ou say?...hmm *scratches chin and ponders*
That might look pretty good...hmm

HAHA that intake setup has to be THE most ineffeciant setup I have ever seen with a slight exception being that of the new Mach1's hood.

Not only does the intake piping do a complete 180* turn in a short amount of time, but the intake filters are connected to, and sitting ON the engine..Not only are is it going to slow air down when it hits the turn, but while it slows down its going to heat up and become less dense and even more ineffeciant.

If Pontiac does anything like this just for the sake of marketing their gimmick ram air I will seriouslly think about sticking with an 04.

Granted this is a concept and all, but I can see Pontiac and GM doing this simply to appease all the stupid "ram air is real" and "the scoops are fake" crowd :rolleyes:

IMO of coarse, and I don't want this to turn into a RA debate, but I don't think anyone will disagree with me on saying that this system is highly ineffeciant.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Aug 22 2004, 10:25 PM
HAHA that intake setup has to be THE most ineffeciant setup I have ever seen with a slight exception being that of the new Mach1's hood.

Not only does the intake piping do a complete 180* turn in a short amount of time, but the intake filters are connected to, and sitting ON the engine..Not only are is it going to slow air down when it hits the turn, but while it slows down its going to heat up and become less dense and even more ineffeciant.

If Pontiac does anything like this just for the sake of marketing their gimmick ram air I will seriouslly think about sticking with an 04.

Granted this is a concept and all, but I can see Pontiac and GM doing this simply to appease all the stupid "ram air is real" and "the scoops are fake" crowd :rolleyes:

IMO of coarse, and I don't want this to turn into a RA debate, but I don't think anyone will disagree with me on saying that this system is highly ineffeciant.
:woot: That intake would be sweet modification with some intercoolers and a couple of twins up front

Originally posted by Nocturn@Aug 22 2004, 05:25 PM
HAHA that intake setup has to be THE most ineffeciant setup I have ever seen with a slight exception being that of the new Mach1's hood.

Not only does the intake piping do a complete 180* turn in a short amount of time, but the intake filters are connected to, and sitting ON the engine..Not only are is it going to slow air down when it hits the turn, but while it slows down its going to heat up and become less dense and even more ineffeciant.

IMO of coarse, and I don't want this to turn into a RA debate, but I don't think anyone will disagree with me on saying that this system is highly ineffeciant.
Now the 180° turn may prove to hurt intake flow a bit, the time air remains in the intake pipe until it enters the engine is so minimal that it wouldnt increase in temp by more than a fraction of a degree, less than it would going through the intake manifold itself and a fraction of that upon entering the combustion chambers at high throttle levels. I've taken air temp measurements before and after a supercharger which had an air to water "aftercooler" that was mounted under the hood and got quite heat soaked after hours of driving. Upon acceleration intake temps dropped to near ambient AFTER the supercharger within seconds of acceleration at high throttle levels. IE: For a brief second the intake might remain heat soaked and intake temps might rise but the moment you begin to move and air flow increases through the intake pipes, the air will slip through so fast the temp of the intake pipe itself makes no difference.

Look at it this way, Subaru makes turbocharged cars with the INTERCOOLER on top of the engine, and it works... If the heat from the engine made the intercooler so hot, wouldnt that counteract its purpose? And if that were the case, I'd expect Subaru to know about it and thus mount it somewhere it wouldnt do that.

On that note, I'd really dig a pair of T4's through an oversized front mount intercooler and about 10psi of boost on that GTO, or even a regular GTO even. :friday:

As for the bends, the radius is rather tight and i'd expect it to hurt performance, but i've seen flow chart tests that show a 180° bend is hardly any more restrictive than a 90° bend which is rather odd indeed. This means that intake should be no more restrictive in theory than a stock intake.

Ram Air itself works in theory, and in real life under specific conditions. Personaly, I dont see the point in this use since the actual openings for air flow are so insignificant and would do next to nothing (becides give a cooler air charge) even at high speeds. In fact, the airflow over the hood at speed may even hurt the flow of air into the ram air seeing as it would likely create a void in the area for the air to enter the intakes. (This is why true "ram air" systems such as those used on F1 cars stick far above the surface and directly in the highest area of air flow.)

True Subaru does mount the IC on top of their engines, but from my experiance the intercooler isn't mounted to the engine, or sitting directly on..some WRX owner may correct me if im wrong in which case I will apologize.

Tthe intake piping itself is bound to absoarb heat and thus transfer it to the intake air itself no matter how fast it is moving. While the air may move at a fast rate it is always going to be collecting some heat transfered to it via the piping as the piping is collecting heat from the engine. I think the question is, how much heat will it absoarb and will it effect performance.

All I can do is guess work as no one has really gotten into their set-up and seen where its attached and everything but from the looks of it, It seems a different set-up, probably similiar to a CAI system on an 04 would have been a bit better in terms of performance as it wouldn't deal with the heat soak problem nearly as much as it isn't sitting on top of the engine.

But it seems they designed it this way for the scoops (which are in no doubt very ineffective as RA exists but not on street cars as has been said) which seems like they are catering to the "functional scoop crowd" despite there being an appearnt more effeciant system.

Didn't mean to get all serious in this thread, back on subject. :friday:

ROFL Yea, I get too technical sometimes. Its in my blood or something...

I doubt it would go into production with dual intake filters like that anyhow and if it did I would expect they would insulate the filter "box" from the engine itself.

Also, the intake boxes appear to be molded into the valve cover covers which are in a way a heatshield in their own right. But a nice bit of heat reflecting material and/or an air gap to seperate the intake from the motor and it shouldnt be much of a problem. Personaly, a good ol "Cold Air" intake in the fender well would probably perform just as good and be less cluttered in the engine bay but you know marketing and how people want things like true Ram Air intakes, even if it makes no noticeable difference in daily street performance.

Is that the GM concept that I heard about or is that an aftermarket mod? The wider body makes it the best looking GTO that I have seen yet.

Check out the pics at GMinsidenews. They have full body shots and someone photoshopped it to make it all of the current colors. I nearly fell out of my chair.


http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.ph...opic=7249&st=15 (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7249&st=15)

I saw the car in person, and took a ton of pictures.

It's a nice mock up, but I'm sure it would be quite spendy if it hit production as it is. Perhaps CTS-V spendy.

Of all the parts I'd like to see make production, it'd be the pearl orange color. It's very nice. The seat treatment is cool as well.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Aug 22 2004, 05:25 PM
HAHA that intake setup has to be THE most ineffeciant setup I have ever seen with a slight exception being that of the new Mach1's hood.

Not only does the intake piping do a complete 180* turn in a short amount of time, but the intake filters are connected to, and sitting ON the engine..Not only are is it going to slow air down when it hits the turn, but while it slows down its going to heat up and become less dense and even more ineffeciant.

If Pontiac does anything like this just for the sake of marketing their gimmick ram air I will seriouslly think about sticking with an 04.

Granted this is a concept and all, but I can see Pontiac and GM doing this simply to appease all the stupid "ram air is real" and "the scoops are fake" crowd :rolleyes:

IMO of coarse, and I don't want this to turn into a RA debate, but I don't think anyone will disagree with me on saying that this system is highly ineffeciant.
Well ram air may not be efficent but it works to a certain extent. A Grand Am GT is faster than an SE. Both have the 3.4 liter engine. The only difference is the ram air system. The GT is faster. Why, because of ram air. It adds 5hp and at high speeds it really helps. Is it the most significant mod out there, I doubt it. There are alot of better things to add on a GTO for performance. Ram air does work though.

I'll agree that it can help to an extent, but like you said their are far better things they could do to make the car faster, like weight reduction. Could you imagine if they managed to cut about 400lbs off the thing how much faster it would be?! Heck, it would be close to a Vette in at least straight line performance.

On the note of intakes, can anyone take a few high rez pictures of the intake area with the filter box removed and give me a good picture of the mount between the filter box and the mass air meter along with a measurement of the intake where it meets the mass air meter please... (Inner and outer diamater would be good.) Also, how does the intake box attach to the mass air meter? (Forgive the questions, I'm waiting on an 05 GTO for the moment.) Heck, while your at it, can I get some measurements of the area between the mass air meter and the fender as well as the area around the meter?