I really hope not, but I sense a rivalry developing like the old LT1 F-bodies vs. the LS1's. No flaming or stuff like that will be allowed on the site, but I just wanna know what everyones opinion on this is. Hopw would you defend your 04 against and 05 talking BS? I think GTO guys should stick togethor since the car seems to be so polarizing.

Figure ask now, since no one has an 05 yet.

Oh yea, my engine is smaller than yours! Hrm, wait.... :eatarrow:

You only get ONE first impression. If the 2004 was the "return of the great one" ... What is the 2005? Pontiac has made some really big mistakes here and history will likely show this as far as the 2004 resale value and collector car interest. If you have a 2004 - I am senstive to that as well - I truly feel that ... just slapping on the scoops and adding dual exit exhaust will not make up for the "bland styling" attributited to the 2004. The extra 50 HP will not "sell" anyone who can't get past the looks of the car...I plan to wait unil Sept / Oct 2005 and get a really good deal ($3,500 - $4,000 off) a 2005. The sony Beta max was and still is a superior product to the VHS format ... keep that in mind...it's all about marketing and perception...C GTO

I have no problems with folks buying 2005's. They can come in here and brag all about it. They should as it is an even better version of the 2004 car that I currently own. Just like the 2006 will be better, then the 2007......

What I have a BIG problem with are what I call the wanna-be's. Folks who come in here and say they are going to buy the 2005 this, and get the 2005 that. Then to top it off, they proceed to lecture us 2004 owners about how much they know about the 2005. The 2005's will be cheaper. They will have no mark-ups. They will be in dealer lots before the year ends.

So I called a lot of them on it. I said, excuse me, you so-called "experts". Can I see a show of hands? How many of you have 2005's sitting in your driveway/garages right now. How much was the MSRP? What was the delivery date? What was the price out the door?

Amazingly, there was silence. Just cricket sounds.

What's even more amazing, is that I don't even hear from these folks I detested so much anymore. You know why? They all went out and bought an 04.

If you want to buy an 05, go right ahead. Knock yourself out. Heck, buy 2 or 3 if you want to. In the meantime, just don't insult my intelligence and proclaim to the whole world you know more than I do. Shut up at least until you have that puppy home. We have gone through the buying experience. You have not. Speculation does not equal actual purchase. You talked to a dealer and he gave you an imaginary figure and an imaginary target date. Guess what buddy, your salesman is as clueless as you are if not more. We have actual real checks that get sent out month after month payable to the General. What do you have?

I can't wait to pull up next to a 2005 GTO in my 04.
In the next couple weeks I'm getting some serious mods for my LS-1 GTO!!

MAGNACHARGER----------will be 471hp in a couple weeks :dribble:
And my goat is going into the paint shop to cut out another inlet on the passengers rear side for more exhaust pipes. They are going mold it exactly so that the inlet looks the same as the drivers side. Yea thats right, I'm going have a custom QUAD pipe GTO................ 4 pipes out the back baby!! :P The 05 will only have 2 pipes.
To be honest though I've had my GOAT for a month now and I have yet to see another GTO in my whole county. I love the rarity of our GTO :)

My 04 will never be considered lesser to an 05.........bring it on bitches lol

EDDIE

Heh, I still plan on getting an 05, but mostly because I really want the color that isnt available for 04's. The LS2's base horsepower increase and the few other differences to me are just a bonus. The cost being so much lower on an 04 is very tempting though I dont have all the moneys together to get an 04 at the moment anyhow. Then again, if they still have some 04's on the lot come January when I go in to place an order on an 05, perhaps i'll just drive away in one of those instead. :woot:

pulsered- how much is that Magnacarger and do you need to change the exhaust to have one?Will that void your factory warrany?

doesnt the charger whine like tuner cars?

Hmmmmmmm.... Specifically I leased because of this exact problem. I know that at the end of 36 months, I should be able to pick up a new Zeta Platform 2007, probably with the 3500 off MSRP too. But, in the mean time, I can settle for a cool 350 to jet around town in. Settle? Funny. :hysterical:

No need for '04 and '05 head banging here. I had placed an order for an '04 last year, then found out that the '05 would add 50 ponies and a few other neat little tweaks. That does not mean the '04's are not a great car.

My dealership told me that I can order my '05 any time, but he does not have details or options and pricing yet. This dealer is allowing me to purchase under the GM employee discount. He would really like me to buy one of the 30 2004's he has in stock. That is tempting with the $3,500 rebate and GM employee discount an '04 would cost me $24,995 plus tax etc....but I'll pay $3,500 more for the 50 ponies, true dual exhaust (one pipe on each side) and the new hood. My sources tell me that many of the other little issues are resolved also. Like the rear differential slapping the floor board under hard acceleration.

The '04's are great, but the resale will be really bad. Some dealers are running brand new GTO's through the local auction to get them off the lot. Depretiation may not be much better on the '05...but who knows.

If you are a car guy...then we understand the value with the new GTO's...great sleeper cars. Looks like a Grand Prix but runs like a Vette for $20k less! :D

But if u ask alot of people i know heres not the place to talk about it, its not a gto, my dad cannot stand the car but i like it, hes like thats not a gto to me my first gto blah blah blah, i think the 04 will be forgoten and the 05 will be the RETURN of the gto, ok ls1 vs ls2 no real big deal to me its the hood scoop and some of the other changes that are being made!


William

Originally posted by tonythetuna68@Sep 24 2004, 10:21 PM
But if u ask alot of people i know heres not the place to talk about it, its not a gto, my dad cannot stand the car but i like it, hes like thats not a gto to me my first gto blah blah blah, i think the 04 will be forgoten and the 05 will be the RETURN of the gto, ok ls1 vs ls2 no real big deal to me its the hood scoop and some of the other changes that are being made!


William
Wow, more than the 50 extra ponies of the LS2? You must really like factory installed hood scoops.

I thought the '05s were getting "dual dual" exhaust outlets? Meaning two pipes on each side? Could be wrong...

That is an option. The autocross body option for next year has dual dual exhaust while withut the autocross it just has plain dual.

That's soooooo weak... I don't want the body kit but I want dual dual exhaust. Piss.

Incorrect, the 05 has dual exiting exhaust that exits on both sides of the car, the autocross does also it just has quad tips. The only car that has dual exhaust but exits on one side is the 04.

I like the 05s and I like the 04s, unfortunatly I think alot of people are jumping to conclusions about the 05 who were not around for the 04. I was here when people first started getting their pre-orders in 3-6 months after the TPW date. There is alot about the 05 that is still unknown that people are assuming. MSRP for example will be higher than the 04 is, not by much but it is.

Also, this nonsence about the 04 having poor resale? The only reason it has poor resale NOW is because you can still get it at dealers for under 30K, if you expect to get MSRP when dealers arn't then your a fool. Wait a couple years and watch what the value of it is. I think it will be a hot number as its a one year only car (especially pulse red) where in the 05-06 will be the same, the 04 is the only one with the single exit exhaust and LS1. From a collector/resale stand point that will make it worth more than an 05/06.

But for as the time being I wouldn't expect much for either year as they are brand new.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Sep 25 2004, 02:50 PM
Incorrect, the 05 has dual exiting exhaust that exits on both sides of the car, the autocross does also it just has quad tips. The only car that has dual exhaust but exits on one side is the 04.
Thats basically what i was saying. I know it has split duel exhaust. All i was saying was you can get the quad tips (dual dual) with the autocross.

lol the tips are just splitters at the end, nothing more. The Dual/dual system on the 05 is the same thing just with 2 tips instead of 4. Where in the 04 has dual tips, just single side exiting...

You may already know what im saying im just trying to clarrify, :afro:

Nice job raping the hell out of my photoshop Goat Lover...

Personaly, as much less as the 04 is than the 05 will be, the fact I dont have to do anything to it (thus dont void any part of my warrenty) and it is already as quick as a modified 04, plus I dont have to buy an aftermarket hood, exhaust or rear facia and paint them just to get the look i'd otherwise want. I'm sure a lot of people would agree, its easier to just pay up front and get them as part of the car than add it as an aftermarket part. (In the case of upgraded brakes, engine performance or drivetrain, most likely voiding some form of the vehicles warrenty depending on your dealership.)

lol, sorry but i just had to entertain myself cuz i wuz bored...
Ont he serious side of it though, that photoshop was awesome looking. I like the looks of the front on my badly eddited ****py looking image but yours was pretty nice.

and yes i think the car should not have a spolier and should have a scoop

You shure tony? No Superbird wing on yours? :P

The different years will have different mods availabl as well as their own particular problems. I will be interested in seeing how the GTO evolves over time. I may be in the market again by '07 but then that would be a first year of a new model. In the meantime I will just keep on grinning.
:drunk::drunk:

I personaly do not ever see the new GTO being of interest to any collectors in the future. I could be wrong. The only way I see that happening is when the factories stop building new stuff with 300+ ponies under the hood.

In my opinion, this is a great time to be a car guy...Hemi's are back on the street, GTO's 400HP Vettes, new Mustangs with some romp, SSR's (even though they are a POS they are neat), and more rear wheel drive V-8's coming out of the factories every year.

Buy'em drive'm and smile!!! This is where disposable income should go, not investment money!!!

That is my rant for now! :woot:

I do think the car will have some value in the future. Just cause there is so few of em' out on the roads right now.

I feel any 05 guy who bashs the 04 is an a****** and vice versa. This is the same way i felt when old GTO and 04 guys were arguing. This is a community, made up around one car, The Great One. There needs to be unity. I like the classics best but i love my 04. It makes a great daily driver, so much fun. I also think the 05 will be a slightley better GTO and hopefully a better selling one. This dosent mean i dont love my car, cause i do. I bought my 04 because i got a great deal and didnt feel like waiting until the end of the 05 model year to get a decent deal on one. The 05 should be a slightley better car because improvments should be made every year. I do think that anyone considering an 05 should go down to there local dealers and test drive an 04. I can gurantee that if the person has the money to buy the car they probably will. All i can see is long live the GTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by 1964GTO@Oct 1 2004, 03:44 PM
I feel any 05 guy who bashs the 04 is an a****** and vice versa. This is the same way i felt when old GTO and 04 guys were arguing. This is a community, made up around one car, The Great One. There needs to be unity. I like the classics best but i love my 04. It makes a great daily driver, so much fun. I also think the 05 will be a slightley better GTO and hopefully a better selling one. This dosent mean i dont love my car, cause i do. I bought my 04 because i got a great deal and didnt feel like waiting until the end of the 05 model year to get a decent deal on one. The 05 should be a slightley better car because improvments should be made every year. I do think that anyone considering an 05 should go down to there local dealers and test drive an 04. I can gurantee that if the person has the money to buy the car they probably will. All i can see is long live the GTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well said 64!

With that said, I think we should get rid of the 2005 GTO Specific area as I feel it alienates the 2004 guy's and gals and creates seperation. The new GTO is a new GTO.

I am an avide off roader/rock crawler and on Jeeps Unlimited we don't separate models by years. A TJ Wrangler is a TJ Wrangler, a XJ Cherokee is a XJ Cherokee. There is no 2003 TJ and 2004 TJ areas.

I think we should have an LS1 area and a LS2 area instead. This will allow the 04 and 05 people to discuss the only basic mechanical differnece of the 2.

Just my $.02
:afro:

I think 64 has the right idea...I did not mean to come across as a negative nanny...I love this stuff. '04, '05 doesn't really matter. Buy'em Drive'em and smile!!! ;)

Even though I'm modding my 04 and most likely will be faster then an 05 for the time being............... The LS2 will eventually get its share of upgrades. But I agree with 1964, we should all stick together and respects each others rides. There are few of us as is on the road, so arguing about who's better is ridiculous. I'm still waiting to see any GTO driver in my whole county :unsure: ...........I live in the central part of California, (between Monterey and Santa Cruz). I would love to pull over and shoot the breeze with a fellow GTO owner.

Eddie

the 05 area is there not for an 05 community, but just for 05 information and discussion, when the 06's are comming out it will change to 06 instead of 05...I think.

Thanks for agreeing with me, all i want is for the GTO community( old, new and future) to just be at peace. Hopefully the new GTO bashers will get a life and stop posting here. I dont like mustangs so i dont waste my time on a forum for them. I dont get why new GTO haters waste there life pissing people off on here. You want retro keep dreaming and dont bother us.

Originally posted by 1964GTO@Oct 2 2004, 11:08 PM
I dont get why new GTO haters waste there life pissing people off on here.
Because they've got nothing better to do with their time. :lol:

Originally posted by desertgoat@Sep 23 2004, 11:36 PM
I have no problems with folks buying 2005's. They can come in here and brag all about it. They should as it is an even better version of the 2004 car that I currently own. Just like the 2006 will be better, then the 2007......

What I have a BIG problem with are what I call the wanna-be's. Folks who come in here and say they are going to buy the 2005 this, and get the 2005 that. Then to top it off, they proceed to lecture us 2004 owners about how much they know about the 2005. The 2005's will be cheaper. They will have no mark-ups. They will be in dealer lots before the year ends.

So I called a lot of them on it. I said, excuse me, you so-called "experts". Can I see a show of hands? How many of you have 2005's sitting in your driveway/garages right now. How much was the MSRP? What was the delivery date? What was the price out the door?

Amazingly, there was silence. Just cricket sounds.

What's even more amazing, is that I don't even hear from these folks I detested so much anymore. You know why? They all went out and bought an 04.

In the meantime, just don't insult my intelligence and proclaim to the whole world you know more than I do. Shut up at least until you have that puppy home. We have gone through the buying experience. You have not. Speculation does not equal actual purchase. You talked to a dealer and he gave you an imaginary figure and an imaginary target date. Guess what buddy, your salesman is as clueless as you are if not more. We have actual real checks that get sent out month after month payable to the General. What do you have?

You atually imply in you post that nobody could possibly know more about the 05 than you do because you own an 04. Wow that's some fuked up logic.

I say you are as ignorant as everybody else on this site. There is nothing that you know that hasn't been posted on this board somewhere, is there? If there is I'd love to hear it.

And you tell people to shut up until they have gone through the buying process. Was there some secret information that is given out when you purhased your 04 GTO? Some initiation ritual before they hand over the key that imparts you with GTO god status? I think that you are the one that needs to shut up about the 05 until you have one sitting in your driveway.

In you post you say that that you have had a monthly payment to the General. (Also something that apparently imparts wisdom) Do you really? Because this a quote from you in another post:

"... If I couldn't afford to pay it in cash, then I don't buy a depreciating asset such as a car, especially with any sizeable interest rates.

The only way I would finance a car is if it is 0% interest.

I gave my dealer a 30K check and he gave me a silver/red/M6 goat."

Get your story straight kid. And Please stop using what 1 or 2 ignorant people say as a basis for what all "05 wannabe's" believe. It's really annoying.

word.

Lets not turn this into apersonal attack, fact of the matter is that he has been through the system before and while it may not make him a "wise man" it does mean he has been there before.

word.