I am relocating to NZ next year, maybe even Oz. I would like some recommendations for a new car to purchase. Has to be 4 door (for baby), have decent grunt, reasonably reliable, has to be stylish, not too temperamental and not crazy price either, Im thinking around $75000 NZD. Not fond of turbos, prefer naturally aspirated, wouldn't mind s/c though. Perhaps a Holden or Ford equivalent? Also, is the car buying method the same as it is in the States, ie easy to find invoice, then negotiate around that price?
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Hey Nick,

To make sure you keep the faith and stay with GM :):)

Holden New Zealand (http://www.holden.co.nz/)

You should be able to fit into this one no problem

Holden Commodore SS (http://www.holden.co.nz/vehicle/commodore/ss/)

It is still the LS1 but depending on your move date you may find an LS2 on the way, HSV sells in NZ but I think the pricing maybe above the $75k mark...but a used one should be well within reach...also if you are getting the car paid for by your work, you can look at the leasing options on the HSV's.

One thing to look into if you are planning on staying for a while is a Novated lease, which i can't and won't attempt to explain :) but i believe the way it works is the payment comes out of your paycheck before tax and then after a period of time you buy out the remainder or soemthing like that. Definately worth a look.

I never bought a car in Australia and my parents have a Corolla that is a good 10 years old so I can't say anything about the negotiating, but certainly if you aren't a smart*ss and all that i am sure they will be a little flexable, exp if you want to pick up last years model. Like right now Holden just released the VZ Commodore, so you know for sure that they are going to want to sell last years VY's.

Btw, when you are in Aus & NZ, it's either Holden or Ford, so don't go thinking those Ford's are nice :):):):)

James

I can't speak of NZ - other than it's a fine country, with good social values

But in Oz you'll find that fuel costs are maybe double what it is in the US. And it's a big place to explore. However, fuel costs about half what it does in Europe, so there's the upside. Another factor is LPG (propane) which in many areas is half the price of petrol, or less - a significant saving. I'm unsure but gather that vehicle insurance is generally much cheaper here than in the US

In the new-car scene, locally manufactured vehicles offer terrific value as compared to imports. Of those, Holden, Ford, Mitsubishi & Toyota are your choices. The Toyota is a Camry so I will presume to ignore those. But for the equivalent of NZ$75,000 you can buy a quite upspec machine, eg: something around Monaro CV8 level, or similar performance/luxury sedan

Some suggestions by make:

If you'd like manual (or auto) trans V8 2wd sedan, for Holden look to budget-priced SV8. Or slightly upspec SS sedan or LWB SS wagon, also in M6 or A4. For around NZ$75,000 your choices approach low-echelon HSV like ClubSport - unsure if latest HSV sedans are LS2? Or luxury auto-only Holden Calais sedan in either 3.6 DOHC V6 or LS1, or lower 'mid- luxury' Berlina sedan/wagon. A wildcard would be Adventra LS1 AWD SUV auto wagon, or even big double-cab auto ute in 2wd, AWD, V6 or LS1, in base trim or up to SS. Even HSV makes a sporty double-cab but it looks a bit gauche

Ford Falcon & derivatives (imho anyway) are an excellent alternative, fine chassis & torquey 4.0 I-6 DOHC or V8 engines. In manual or auto, interesting price-range sedans include rapid XR6 DOHC Turbo & XR8 quadcam, or the flagship GT from FPV.com.au. FPV's new Typhoon F6 turbo-6 sedan is particularly impressive to the enthusiast - probably Ford's (and maybe AU's?) finest sports sedan - notwithstanding your anti-turbo angst. XR6T & Typhoon are torque-terrors, 90% @ 1750rpm. Similar to Holden, Ford also offers various non-sporty sedans in n/a 6cyl & 5.4 SOHC guises, and auto-only 6cyl LWB wagons (leaf-sprung rear!). Then there is new Ford Territory 2wd & AWD SUV wagon which is not a Falcon deriviative per sé, auto-6 only but outstanding reviews

Holdens/Fords are roomy cars (slightly more rear legroom than Ford Crown Vic?) yet both Holden & Ford also offer particularly spacious LWB sedan variants, Statesman & Fairlane respectively. Perhaps slightly outside your stated budget but a huge & practical family car/tourer

Mitsubishi Diamante originates from AU, here they are called Magna & lux Verada sedan/wagon, 3.5 V6 in FWD or AWD (manual avail in 2wd). Dullsville yes, but the AWD is a fine handler & under-rated car, albeit no rocketship. Mitsu has truly awful resale .. cheap new, near-new is absolute-bargain buying! A new AWD Magna is about 30~35% less than imported Subaru Legacy AWD 6cyl (here called Liberty) but very comparable to drive

For 6cyl vehicles only, factory-fitted LPG is available for Holden (petrol/LPG dual-fuel system) with Ford & Mitsu offering mono-fuel LPG option. Uniquely, the Ford sytem includes a dedicated hi-compression engine. There's a plethora of quality aftermarket conversions for 6s (unsure on latest V8s). Both of my cars are LPG, the $ savings are considerable

The previous poster's advice on novated leases is on the mark. There is no above-list markup here and, depending on model-cycle & dealer inventory, a price reduction haggle of 5~10% (or possibly more) is accepted practice. Especially to select models. For example, a recent foray of mine brought an (AU)$9k discount to slow-selling Magna AWD, and $8400 to 'final-runout model' Holden S ute - both discounted down to about $32k driveaway (on-road costs add about 7% at that price level)

Is that enough info or would you like more? :type:

nota- thanks, thats a lot of good info for me. I found a few websites in nz/Oz that give me rough ideas of prices used and almost new. They seem to be expensive compared to used values here in the US, especially the holdens, they seem to hold their value strongly.

One huge exception I found was the prices of used Toyota Supras, dirt cheap, around 15-25k for a 1997-1998 in NZ. Is there a reason for that? Supras here go for top dollar, they are really in demand. Is it the same car? 222hp base or 320 i think for the twin turbo. Do people not regard them as highly as holdens? Seems very cheap compared to other sports cars?

Also, i need a car for the missus. She like the lexus es300 here, is that the same as the toyota windom? it looks exactly the same from pictures, again it seems to be good value used.

As far as buying price, do the dealers slap on "sucker prices" or is invoice price readily available? Can you buy for close to invoice, say 500 over? And for used, say the dealer is asking $40k for a holden, whats a realistic buying price, say $38??


Any info would help, thanks.

We just had the HSV (Holden Special Vehicles) Z-series released over here, with the LS2 engine.

When you live over here, it's either your a Holden man (like myself and other legends) or a Ford man (like so many poor, unfortunate souls).

Stay true with GM mate, please....

Ford doesnt offer a 2 door "big" car over here, not like the GTO. Unless you could call the Ford Cougar a car....but I dont, its a matchbox toy.

Normal, mainstream Holdens (commodore, the entry-level car) dont really hold their value well, not as much as they maybe should.

More luxo models hold it more, like Berlina and Calais, but HSV I think holds its value well, but then again, alot of the money you pay for an HSV it for the badge, but they do make their cars go like stink.

Holdens also just released a new V6, the Alloytec, 2 versions 175kw or 190kw with 5 speed auto or 6 speed manual. PLUS Holden (I hope) is reviving the old Torana, but this time it will leave the factory (say again, HOPEFULLY) with a Twin-Turbo 3.6L V6 producing around 280kw!! Carnt wait!!

Mate come to Australia and you'll pick up decent Supras for around 15-25K easy, but why would you? For a little more you could find a pretty good HSV, plus you'll get 2 more doors than a Supra, too.

Originally posted by nota@Oct 30 2004, 03:41 PM
FPV's new Typhoon F6 turbo-6 sedan is particularly impressive to the enthusiast - probably Ford's (and maybe AU's?) finest sports sedan - notwithstanding your anti-turbo angst. XR6T & Typhoon are torque-terrors, 90% @ 1750rpm.
I hate to be a smarty pants, but:

(Quoted from www.holden.com.au, about the Twin Turbo V6 developed in-house at Holden)

Ninety per cent of the 480Nm of torque developed is available from just 1600 rpm and the TT36 shares the power-to-weight advantage that helped its A9X sporting predecessor to drive into the record books at Mount Panorama a quarter of a century ago.

Sorry to be soooo biased, but I am Holden thru and thru. I was probably conceived in a Holden, born in a Holden, took my first trip to the slammer in a Holden cop car, and I wouldnt mind being buried in a Holden too...

P.S. Some bloke took a XR6 Turbo engine and worked it to get 1163hp out of it. Not bad for a 6 cyl....we'll make a bigger one eventually

Originally posted by nick_the_brit@Oct 30 2004, 04:41 PM
nota- thanks, thats a lot of good info for me. I found a few websites in nz/Oz that give me rough ideas of prices used and almost new. They seem to be expensive compared to used values here in the US, especially the holdens, they seem to hold their value strongly.

:eatarrow: YWC nick. Yes, USA definately is the home of cheap motoring!

My suggestions were based on transposing simple $-conversion of NZ$75k limit into AU$ & marketplace, but from the little I know of NZ the prices of many cars including AU ones will be higher there than here. Holden & recent Ford has solid resale in Oz, as you can imagine. People trust them, as proven durability & cheap whole-of-life. 2002-on Ford resale now recovered after image problem of previous model

One huge exception I found was the prices of used Toyota Supras, dirt cheap, around 15-25k for a 1997-1998 in NZ. Is there a reason for that? Supras here go for top dollar, they are really in demand. Is it the same car? 222hp base or 320 i think for the twin turbo. Do people not regard them as highly as holdens? Seems very cheap compared to other sports cars?

Until about 20 years ago NZ used to have a car assembly industry (CKD or SBU) then Govt protectionism stopped, and cheap 2nd-hand ex-japan imports literally swamped their market. This policy change vaporised NZ car assembly, and severely hurt new-car sales & infrastructure. And I do mean cheap too, as many of these cars were (are?) either misrepresented or of dubious origin, at worst stolen ex-Yakuza crime gang etc. One study I saw reported that up to a whopping 70% of sample had 'haircuts' (my aussie slang for odometer windback) usually pre-importage, so it is definitely caveat emptor eg buyer beware! UK had similar experience btw, re mileage woes

In tough AU conditions/roads, Holden & Falcon vehicles last notably longer in general, hence solid resale as they age

Also, i need a car for the missus. She like the lexus es300 here, is that the same as the toyota windom? it looks exactly the same from pictures, again it seems to be good value used.

Yes

US-market Lexus & Acura simply rebadged upspec Toyota or Honda. Until recently, Lexus brand was non-existent in japan, a foreign marketing exercise of their domestic Toyotas. Acura is still US-only rebadged Honda, I believe. In Oz, an ES300 is considered 'an expensive Camry in a party dress' lol

As far as buying price, do the dealers slap on "sucker prices" or is invoice price readily available? Can you buy for close to invoice, say 500 over? And for used, say the dealer is asking $40k for a holden, whats a realistic buying price, say $38??

I'm unfamiliar with NZ retail market

In Oz as previously stated there is no dealer markup for new cars - it is a 'foreign concept'. List, or Manufacturer's Recommended Retail Price (MRRP) is the max price you pay, with no exception. MRRP applies to manufacturer-option prices (eg V8 engine or LSD) as well .. unless you haggle down of course! Of course always negotiate using final driveaway price, including trade-in changeover if applicable. Naturally, haggling % also depends on dealer, model cycle & whether in-stock or built to order. Always check newspaper 'dealer's specials' adverts & shop around, potential big savings. For extreme example, I've seen VY-model Commodore go from $33k ('03 intro @ MRRP) to as low as $24k (overstocked-dealer VY runout in '04). And current VZ facelift will repeat the cycle

Dealers will attempt gouge on minor accessories like mudflaps & use 'just-purchased' emotional leverage to push useless fabric/rust protection packs. On-road costs consists of pre-delivery prep charge, generally between AU$500~1500, often negotiable. Then there's Govt charges: once-only sales tax (%) plus compulsary annual road tax & universal Injury Compensation Scheme fee which varies by locale, approx $450~800

Unable to provide used car discount estimate - too many variables, like slow-moving stock disposal, individual profit/volume margin etc etc. Buyer baiting or 'sucker prices' is a crime in Oz

Any info would help, thanks.
B)

Originally posted by nota+Oct 31 2004, 08:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nota @ Oct 31 2004, 08:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nick_the_brit@Oct 30 2004, 04:41 PM
For extreme example, I've seen VY-model Commodore go from $33k ('03 intro @ MRRP) to as low as $24k (overstocked-dealer VY runout in '04). And current VZ facelift will repeat the cycle [/b][/quote]
This sort of thing isnt new either, it's been going on for a while, and it seems everytime a new Holden Commodore is released, every other model drops a little bit. A couple of years ago, my car would've been worth like A$10000, but now thanks to a couple of new commodores, it's probably about A$7000 worth. Stupid depreciation!

Originally posted by nick_the_brit@Oct 15 2004, 07:22 PM
Im thinking around $75000 NZD.
This much (whatever it is in AUD) would just about get you into a new(ish) HSV anyway. And besides, Australias better than New Zealand any day!

just go the HSV Clubbie (clubsport), it always turns heads and has got the new 6.0 LS2 with 400hp.

Dont forget that you could also look at a late model BMW 3 series. ON New Zealand and Australian roads these cars eat up the K's.

They have great handling and comfort (although may be a little small)

Also they are easy on the gas!

Enjoy the down under roads...! (lots of tight turns and open straights)

A BMW 3 series just isnt the same as a Gen3 or Gen4 V8!

Ok, maybe a M3 comes close....

Owning a BMW over here will turn you into an upper class snob

Or get you car-jacked, either way a V8's the go mate!

Is a Kiwi someone from New Zealand?

Yeah....they are to us what Canada is to you guys, at least that what I've picked up from watching tv shows such as the simpsons and south park.

Originally posted by vrbleena@Dec 12 2004, 01:09 AM
Yeah....they are to us what Canada is to you guys, at least that what I've picked up from watching tv shows such as the simpsons and south park.
Pretty much :D

Is kiwi a good term or is it negative?

Originally posted by ScreaminGTO@Dec 15 2004, 03:36 AM
Is kiwi a good term or is it negative?
The call themselves Kiwi's...

Just a label that's easy to say than New Zealander.


Kiwi is a native bird of NZ.

And they come over to Australia and live off our welfare system and they dont vote! And they take all the good jobs!

That's the New Zealanders, not the birds.

Lmao, We have the same problem in the US. :hysterical: Oh wait... We dont have any jobs for anyone to take, nvm.

Apple eaters,eh??