Fresh from the Automotive News 11/22/04 edition.

Pontiac cuts output for limping GTO

Missallocation of inventories blamed as one of the reasons for low sales. 40% of the 04's were sent to the north-central part of the country they will change that to 30% for the 05's

Also, production will end a couple months earlier so that the 05's are not hanging around as long as the 04's are and so the 06's can get here sooner.

"We will adjust our production levels, and 12,000 unitys per year seems right for this vehicle," Larry Pryg Marketing manager for Pontiac.

Get a copy to read the whole article.

Source Article (http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=50716)

So I think its safe to say that they only built around 12000 04's then.

*highlights from the artcile*

PHOENIX -- After a year of disappointing sales, Pontiac is scaling back production of the 2005 Pontiac GTO, which was touted as a halo car for the brand.

Pontiac will cut GTO production by about 30 percent next year, from its 2004 target of 1,300 to 1,500 units a month to 1,000 a month in 2005.

Larry Pryg, marketing manager for Pontiac's premium mid-sized cars, admitted Pontiac did not conduct enough initial market research on the GTO, misallocated inventory and missed its initial estimate.

"We will adjust production levels, and 12,000 units a year seems right for this vehicle," Pryg said at a press event here.

Through October, Pontiac sold 9,487 GTOs in the United States. Pontiac is offering a $3,500 national cash rebate on 2004 models.

Earlier, dealers had complained that the GTO suffered from bland styling and a high sticker price, and lacked incentives.

Adjusting allocation

Pontiac said imprudent allocation to dealerships was a bigger factor in the slow start. Pontiac overloaded its inventory in the U.S. north-central region, allocating 40 percent of the rear-wheel-drive GTO's initial production to those states in the middle of winter, when the handling problems of rear-drive vehicles in snow are most apparent.

"We wanted to reward those dealers," Pryg said, "but we couldn't neglect the other parts of the country, such as the West Coast, where we didn't have enough in our 30-day supply."

Pryg said 30 percent of 2005 GTO inventory will be allocated to the north-central region. The rest will be dispersed across the country.

This month some dealers still were receiving 2004 GTOs. GM has promised its dealers that production on the 2005 GTO would finish three months earlier than last year.

As for issues of styling and price, Pontiac hopes a stable price and a larger engine will attract more buyers.

Duane Earl, sales manager at Sawyers Pontiac in East Lansing, Mich., says early criticisms of the GTOs were unfounded.

"There was a lot of bad press about it not looking like the old GTOs of the 1960s and '70s, but that's not what it was supposed to be about," says Earl, who sold 22 GTOs last year and has one order for the new model. "I think now that it is out there and people know what it's about, it will be welcomed."

Pontiac hopes to position the GTO as its version of the Chevrolet Corvette - an aspirational vehicle that is the "soul of the brand," says Pontiac spokesman Jim Hopson.

I think 12K a year is a good estimate. They were hoping for the pie in the sky 18K.

I even think 10K would be a more conservative estimate. And NO it is not a failure as the title of the article would have you believe. This is not some mass market cookie cutter bread and butter sedan.

Frankly I like having a "rare" vehicle. I just worry about the future after the 2006 model year. Hopefully it will be able to share tooling costs with other vehicles sharing it's platform and be able to stay viable at 10 to 12K units a year.

Oh and I'd love to line up against the author of the article in my "Limping" GTO. We'll see how much it "limps" as I'm blowing the freakin' doors off his pathetic 4 banger Honda. :tongue:

Cars the GTO will limp to

Viper, Vette, Lambo, Ferrari.....the end.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Nov 22 2004, 05:08 PM
Cars the GTO will limp to

Viper, Vette, Lambo, Ferrari.....the end.
Word dawg.

Pontiac wants to position the new Goat, by that i mean the 07 or 08 GTO, as the "aspirational" vehicle that is the "soul" of the brand. I can easily see this happening.

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Nov 23 2004, 08:00 AM
Oh and I'd love to line up against the author of the article in my "Limping" GTO. We'll see how much it "limps" as I'm blowing the freakin' doors off his pathetic 4 banger Honda. :tongue:
:lol: Exactly! What a ---k! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Nocturn@Nov 22 2004, 05:08 PM
Cars the GTO will limp to

Viper, Vette, Lambo, Ferrari.....the end.
:friday:

Limp? I got yer limp right here, ya pencil necked, Prius driving, tree hugging, latte drinking turd. Whew! Sorry. I feel better now.

:jumpon:

yeah...what he said!!

Originally posted by Nocturn@Nov 22 2004, 03:43 PM
Earlier, dealers had complained that the GTO suffered from bland styling and a high sticker price, and lacked incentives.


:bs: I like that line!! :bs:

Yeah it had nothing to do with this... Back in March when I got my GTP Comp-G here is the dealers quote

"Mr. Dennis not only can we not give you GMS on the GTO we are also adding $5,000 to the sticker price"

Yet dealers complained that the price was too high! I think they are high! on the crack!

I can count at least 10 people in just my direct area that would have a GTO instead of other cars if the dealers did not mark-up the car in the begining.

That line just irritates me :angry:

The short-sightedness of dealers, and American auto-makers, never ceases to amaze me. A lot of the above smacks of the Thunderbird debacle to these ears. Many of the same problems that led to that car being called a "failure" by FoMoCo have occured with the GTO.

First of all, the government is going to have to let the automakers do something with their dealer body. The Pontiac dealer in the small town I live in has three 04 GTO's, and as of one week ago was saying "If you want one you are going to pay sticker"....Huh? My brother and I were out car-shopping and he said outright "Give me an 04 for 30 large and I would probably take it".

However, like many folks he is not going to "hunt" for this kind of deal. Even after being told that he can, at the right dealer, get a significant amount of money off, he just is not the kind of guy who is going to drive 100 miles to a major city to get that deal. This is killing GM and Ford with their halo cars.

Even more amazing is that this dealer did not get it's first GTO until about two months ago. He has 3 GTO's now, but could not get his first until the model year was essnetially over with? I am certain that had this guy received any GTO's early on he would have given them the "mark-up" treatment just like other dealers. Case in point he has a 10,000 dollar "market adjustment" stuck on his sole CTS-V right now. However, it really does not matter what he would have done if GM does not actually get him a car or two since nobody can sell the car if they do not have it..

And, before somebody points out that this is a small town trying to explain away the lack of GTO's. This small town has a dispropotionate amount of "money" in it and a market that seems to appreciate these kinds of cars. Take a drive down main street and you will think you died and went to Ram Air Trans Am/Mustang Cobra heaven. In honesty I cannot imagine a place where GTO's would sell better. A small allotment I can see, but what in reality amounts to no allotment? No.

Of course, both the dealer and the auto-maker have to have their stuff together to sell car which, as they above alludes to, they do not. And, the dealership problem does not appear to be readily solvable as the government nipped Ford's aspirations to begin "buying up" their dealer franchises in the bud. Violates anti-trust laws the govt. says. You cannot apply much pressure to them to not add ridiculous mark-ups to these cars either as that too violates anti-trust laws.

However, it also helps when the auto-maker is conservative and has realistic expectations. I never liked the new Thunderbird, but never understood Ford's assertion that the car had been a failure either. Even with ridiculous mark-ups on an already high sticker the T-Bird outsold every convertible in the US it's first year out with two exceptions. The Mustang and the Sebring.

You have to ask yourself just how many 40k verts Ford thinks it can sell?A 40,000 dollar vert is never going to outsell the Sebring and Mustang verts. Take a look at the cars it outsold and wonder as the FoMoCo's own, much less expensive Miata is among them! Yet somehow that car is a raging succes while the Bird was a failure? As an fyi Ford had allocation issues too.

There is no common sense in Detroit anymore.

Ironic. I drove to a small town dealer to get a great price. I was amazed when a few dealers I spoke with were still asking MSRP for the GTO.

I see a couple of T- birds every day, so they appear to have a niche market in SoFla. Some of the reasons I got a good price on my GTO were, A) Slow sales, which caused, B) GMAC incentives and rebates, and C) Those pesky hurricanes which caused dealers to be shut down, further hindering sales. I also shopped around quite a bit. If you want the right price you have to be willing to travel to get it. I was lucky in that my final deal was within 5 miles of my home.

Don't be afraid to haggle aggressively. You may see the service guy once in a while, but the sales guy will probably be gone before the car is paid off.

Anybody who says those things about this car just aren't car people and don't get it. Therefore I could care less about there opinions.
Dan

Originally posted by DANSLS1@Nov 24 2004, 06:39 AM
Anybody who says those things about this car just aren't car people and don't get it. Therefore I could care less about there opinions.
Dan
Yep. If they don't like it...their loss! :rolleyes:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anyone who bashes the GTO for anything besides the ridiculous prices dealers were asking and including non-distinct styling online :type: or in the real world simply hasn't driven one and is full of :bs:

So they can bite my shiney metal :pain:

p.s.

and they can do it while sucking my fumes in their hooptie they claim is XYZ reasons better than my luxurious, 5 sec 0-60, low 13 second 1/4 V8 thumper2. :tongue:

If I may make an observation..
It seems as if much of the posts as of late have been about bashing the reasons people give for disliking the GTO. WHO Cares? Allowing them to make you angry only shows that you give value to their opinions. Maybe they are right, maybe the majority of people don't like the GTO because of it's styling. Since when does being in the majority make anyone 'right?' The majority of 16 year olds seem to like riced up civics with huge wings, that certainly doesn't make them 'right.' Likewise nor does the opinion of the majority of the public (which is largely uneducated car-wise) matter.
I'm kinda glad many people don't like it, I can get one for about the price of a new mustang thanks to them. B)

Can't wait to make the Mustang limp with it's lame 300 hp.
Oh the cobra........ I'll take my extra cash and buy another house

I think they meant limping in terms of sales, which it certainly is. I say it is due to poor marketing. I did not see one commercial for it that accurately showed the power and handling capabilities. And a lot of people still don't know what it is. I have told people that I am getting an '05 GTO and had them say "Do you mean a GT, like a Mustang?" I hate that.

Forestdweller, from now on I may have to refer to you as "Obi Wan". You are absolutely right. I sometimes get a little more emotional about certain topics than I should, even at my age. Then again, I still agree with True Blue!!

That's a valid point Forrest...but having spent $32k for my GTO and seeing the place at $23k and dropping means hearing such take is salt in the wound. But dwindling resale value aside, again, when in light of the fact that all the talk comes from people who have no genuine interest whatsoever in the GTO, except to get attention and make a platform to yell from :type: it just gets under your skin.

Plus, I drive and own a GTO and I've dealt with GM-Pontiac PR people when I was with Primedia, so if I want to bash the begeezus out of Pontiac, the GTO and anything in between...I have a right to.

:afro:

As long as GM can sell 10,000 GTO's they profit.The same goes for the Soltis and other cars comming soon.Gone are the days when you had to sell 100,000 to profit.I am concerned about the redesigned 06 or 07.The GTO il have to stand on it's own then and face the competion encluding the Soltis,Mustang,etc and pay for it's design costs.I agree that Detroit's biggest problem is the dealers.They don't seem to get it that you have to build a brand up by holding price pressures for new models and creat demand for them.Once you get people into a new design they will help you sell it.Pontiac and the rest of GM need to look in the mirror and find out why they have so much trouble launching new models.Markups are never acceptable and drive buyers to the compition.Keeping cars away from overcharging dealers would be a first step.Also they need to edgucate the dealers about the desired direction they want to take a brand.Tell them to lead follow or get out!

It would be so funny is the 05's ended up in short supply and they had to ramp production up. Needless to say, the 07 will be made with a bit more volume in mind.

So with the 06 unlikely to be as changed as the 05 is to the 04, it seems that the 04 is going to be the rare collectors GTO for those wanting the unique ones.

Advertising could of been better done IMO. Ive only seen chamercials for the goat like 4 times... 2 times durring superbowl i think and the 2 times on some satlite channel in the Pub. :/ At home ive seen just the ones durring the supper bowl (if i remember right thats where i saw them)

JMO

Originally posted by Goat Lover@Nov 28 2004, 09:55 PM
Advertising could of been better done IMO. Ive only seen chamercials for the goat like 4 times... 2 times durring superbowl i think and the 2 times on some satlite channel in the Pub. :/ At home ive seen just the ones durring the supper bowl (if i remember right thats where i saw them)

JMO
It depends on what state your in, Pontiac didnt do agressive advertising in the northrn states.

I'v seen GTO commercials about over 10 times on different networks.

I guess in Phoenix they didnt do alot then :/ That or i just missed it all (with my luck this is prolly what happened)

Be comfortable in your decision. As an owner of such cars, in the past, as a 2000 Audi S4, 2000 C5, 2003 M3, and current owner of a 2004 Mini Cooper S, I am enjoying my new 'GTO'. It is an interesting combination of acceleration, braking, handling, comfortable/well designed interior. Is it the best car I have owned, no. Is it a nice complementary car to others I have owned with a number of attributes from several of them, yes. In fact, I actually might keep it for awhile.....

I agree - dealers are mostly to blame for the slow GTO sales. They are adding $5k to $8k to MSRP in Hawaii - it takes hours of negotiation to get down to MSRP! The rebate helped, but out here the dealers try to put that in their pocket too.

Take the sales / pricing function away from the dealers and have them do demos / test drives and service only. I am happy buying a car through the Internet and going to the dealer to pick it up. Price is always better, takes 15 minutes, you get exactly what you want, and you don't have deal with the "how mutch can we stick it to you for" from the sales floor. I would have bought my GTO that way but the Hawaii Pontiac Dealers don't do Internet sales. That is how I got MSRP though, I had a dealer in Seattle lined up to sell me one at MSRP and ship it to me. So my Hawaii dealer agreed to sell for MSRP. The joys of the car buying experience :tongue:

You guys that are buying '04's now on the mainland for $8k below MSRP - that's a GREAT deal!

As an old f***, I've always marched to a different drummer over my car buying past. One thing I have always done is research a car, pick the one I want within my price range, and plan to care for it and keep it over 100,000 miles. In fact, I'll add mileage to my short list of owned cars below. Point is, I bought the '05 after looking at the '04 and deciding to keep the '96 TransAm another year to get my money's worth out of the tires. Couldn't pass the '05 though with the LS2, bigger brakes, and nicer hood and rear end. My dealer had the foresight to order as many as he could of the '04s and I think got 4 which he quickly sold. First '04 went for $4,000 over sticker, then they dropped the add-on as buyers walked (myself included), not because the car wasn't worth $37,000 but because it was an insult. They ordered the '05s in June of '04 and "knew" what I wanted, so although mine wasn't a special order, it is exactly what I would have ordered. Called me first thing when it hit the ground with 5 miles on the odo. Sold it for $500 over invoice (plus some junk about advertising, yeah...), gave me a good trade in allowance on a real cherry T/A and I found the 0% GMAC financing on my own. I think the original sticker-plus stuff was because dealers thought it was a winner and that short supply would support the gouging. Didn't work, not only for dealers, but it greatly hurt Pontiac as well.

We've got to somehow keep Detroit building these BMW/Lexus killers. This is the finest car I've driven in my 12 years as a GM/BMW/Subaru service manager. Sure, some big 740i's are a bit roomier, have bigger trunks and more gadgets, but you can add your own navigation systems, FM satellite and such if you want for a whole lot less. Quality is excellent on the new GTO, fit and finish is great, body integrity excellent, ride quality fine, good brakes, good handling, and then there's that LS2 ....... at 25 mpg for the M6. I could have purchased anything short of $100,000 and I picked a Goat as the best balanced car combined with dollar value. Planning to swap for an '08 if it shows. But we gotta keep the faith somehow, or Pontiac will backslide to yet another grocer hauler tricked up with some fancy hood and a chrome exhaust.

Just as a point of example,

There's a chevy dealer In sugarland Texas wanting $80,000 for a convertible C6 Corvette.

Nothing done to it, just stock. ...80K.