Anyone seen the new issue of C&D?
A mustang board stated they reviewed the 2005 GTO vs the Mustang and get a 13.3 @107 out of it. Just curious if this is true, be on the look out.

Did not see anything on their website - but I did see the C6 beat out the 911 (again)

I saw similar numbers in 2 reviews.

In Automobile magazine though, I saw 0-60 in 5.6 and I think 14.2 in 1/4 mile.
I was reading pretty quick though.

Has anyone seen any stats from Ford?

Originally posted by scot254@Dec 3 2004, 01:12 PM
In Automobile magazine though, I saw 0-60 in 5.6 and I think 14.2 in 1/4 mile.


:hysterical: What knuckle head was driving that car!

C&D got a 13.8 out of the new mustang, so eitherway I think the GTO wins.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Dec 3 2004, 05:19 PM
C&D got a 13.8 out of the new mustang, so eitherway I think the GTO wins.
the gto wins if its an 04 too :D

Originally posted by TheJizzer+Dec 3 2004, 01:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheJizzer @ Dec 3 2004, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-scot254@Dec 3 2004, 01:12 PM
In Automobile magazine though, I saw 0-60 in 5.6 and I think 14.2 in 1/4 mile.


:hysterical: What knuckle head was driving that car! [/b][/quote]
I think he was quoting a time for the mustang. The new C&D is the first to review the '05 GTO, but they do so by comparing it to an 05 mustang. It's the GTO that I care about...

Am I allowed to link to another board?
Here's a writeup from someone with the mag.

Click Here (http://ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10748)

Edit: Yes if you do it this way.

yeah, I thought you meant C&D ran the mustang at 13.3. Haven't seen that issue.
I was skeptical its really around 13.9.

Hmm, coulda swore i posted... But C&D was clearly favoring the Mustang for its looks, just like EVERY OTHER PERSON on the road... You'll see a flock of Mustangs ready for easy pickins in a matter of months. By summer 2005 we'll have so many 05 Mustang kills its not even funny. Oh well, their loss! :hysterical:

If the Mustang had been redesigned in 2004 and the GTO was released in 2005 I'm guessing the GTO would have won in their points score.
Thats the way the magazines work much of the time.

I kinda like the new Mustang, but it will lose much of it's appeal when everyone's little sister is driving a V6.

The Mustang won the comaprison by one point, mainly as the editos gave the stang a "gotta have it factor" of 7 points...meaning its totally subjective and that the GTO owned the Mustang in every objective test.

Once again C&D doesnt fail to disgusts me on a continues basis.

Once again, if you didnt cancel your subscription for their reviw of the 04 (in which they praise the 02 Camaro saying "they cancelled our beloved Camaro for this" but yet read any review they gave the Camaro and they hated it." Then I advice you to cancel it now.

I like C and D but I don't agree with them regarding the GTO or the Mustang. I don't think the new Stang looks all that great. It's OK I guess but that's it. The GTO is georgeous and it runs, drives, and handles better. I am concerned about the pedal placement they mentioned. They said it was almost impossible to heel and toe downshift because the brake pedal is too far away from the throttle. I thought the same thing when I drove an 04 a few months ago. I kind of wrote it off to just me not being used to the pedal placement. They also said there was no dead pedal in the car. Makes me wonder if they had like a pre production version or something. I still think I would rather fab and install my own dead pedal , and cut and reweld the brake pedal in the proper position than try and fix all of the things I don't care for on the Mustang.

I guess when an 05 Mustang GT pulls up next to me, the driver will hold up a magazine article in the window and I will be so scared of the article's outcome that I won't even try to race. Yeah, right. Let's see what happens in real life, I ran against a few cars that I wasn't supposed to beat according to some magazine article and came out on top. Like I say about dynos, I never pulled into the staging beams at the track and saw a magazine article in the other lane :P

Originally posted by TEK GTO@Dec 4 2004, 04:01 AM
I guess when an 05 Mustang GT pulls up next to me, the driver will hold up a magazine article in the window and I will be so scared of the article's outcome that I won't even try to race. Yeah, right. Let's see what happens in real life, I ran against a few cars that I wasn't supposed to beat according to some magazine article and came out on top. Like I say about dynos, I never pulled into the staging beams at the track and saw a magazine article in the other lane :P
You havnt? Oh man I remember this one time I pulled up next to Motortrend, Oh man It was nasty, I ran against their car of the year article...it was great.

I got the new C&D on Friday...Mustang won even though the GTO won in the following: all 0-whatever times, top speed, horsepower, torque, and a few other items.

C&D just moaned like crazy about the smallest things, and condradicted everything they said previously when they first reviewed the new Mustang.

In my opinon, they got paid off.

Well I read it and my pic is the GTO, I like the look of the mustang better, but come on the GTO destroys the mustang in the performance tests!

My favorite is racing super street mags.. their so colorful like a rainbow


hmm 400 hp VS 300... gee i dunno... but everyone you have to admit the new retro styling is alot better than the last ones.. ICK.. especially in the interiors WAY better improvment and its about time they actually did something with the HP numbers.. except every article I read they mentioned it compared to a GTO like... you will probably surprise the GTO on the track and some other negatives. that is why i like GTOs better.. their "quiet" ( meaning they do their thing ) and their owners seldom talk s***.. and are usually underestimated... I think I would rather be underestimated. Dont you ?

Ok someone post up the performance number caomparisons for us less fortunate people that do not have the magazine - please :D

Or how about an article scan please? :D

Something else to consider, C&D got a patheticly slow 14.0 sec 1/4 mile time for last year's M6. If they got a 13.3 for 2005 that means a better mag might be s****ing 12s..

s c r a p ing is a bad word? ;)

No, but c r a p is.

Originally posted by CSiJason@Dec 5 2004, 12:25 AM
No, but c r a p is.
I know, hence the ;) , I just keep forgetting..

The average I have seen so far reading magazines and posts is

2004 GTO mid 13s
2005 Mustand mid 13s
2005 GTO low 13s
2005 Corvette high 12s

And I read somewhere that they said GM was behind in the performance segment --- BWWWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :hysterical:

They now have a mass produced 12 second production vehicle (maybe 2). I would say they may be leading in performance right now.

For the money, i'd say they have one of the best fast all sports performance cars and one of the best fast luxo-daily driver performance cars. Now if I could only afford one of each!

You have to give the win to the GTO in this comparison, but this is C&D we're talking about. They did take styling into consideration, which most car mags would probably take the Mustang over the Monar-, er GTO. I am subscribed to C&D and I do enjoy reading them but I would never let them have an impact on my automotive decisions.

yep, as soon as I get the goat, then It won't be too long b4 I'd get a quick n' easy ECU tuner, for a little "extra" to shove down ford's throat.

Did anyone see the back cover of C&D's December issue? It has an awesome pic of the 2005 GTO with all avalible acessories.

Originally posted by nsap@Dec 6 2004, 09:27 PM
Did anyone see the back cover of C&D's December issue? It has an awesome pic of the 2005 GTO with all avalible acessories.
How about the back of the newest (January) issue. There is an advertisement for the GTO with the Autocross body option and it really adds some much needed agressiveness to the GTO's body. It really looks good in that particular photo.

Yea, its a sweet pic.

i'll have to get a new issue to finish reading the article ,since the pages are all stuck together after i threw up in it ! they are idiots !!

Originally posted by YellowGoatNick+Dec 3 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YellowGoatNick @ Dec 3 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nocturn@Dec 3 2004, 05:19 PM
C&D got a 13.8 out of the new mustang, so eitherway I think the GTO wins.
the gto wins if its an 04 too :D [/b][/quote]
The GTO has been winning since 64 and it will always win :hysterical:

Totally off topic, but that avitar is fabulous, 93Red.

Originally posted by carnivore80@Dec 10 2004, 12:43 PM
Totally off topic, but that avitar is fabulous, 93Red.
Ditto

gee wiz, unfortunaltly I can't take the credit, someone else in some SVT forums was using it and I STOLE it. :afro:

Car and Driver were just continuing their anti-GM bias with this latest Mustang vs GTO test. I find it interesting that they give so much weight to exterior styling in their points total. Not that styling isn't important, just that as an informed consumer I can make the appearance judgement without the magazine's opinion. What we need the magazines for is their performance tests

Here's what I think...

Car and Driver mentioned that they didn't get an 05 GTO in time for their Best Muscle Car 10Best Category. As such, the Ford Mustang GT won that one.

The 05 GTO then proceeds to stomp the new Mustang in every category important to muscle cars and then some, except trunk space, price, and the subjective matter.

The new Mustang is riding a wave of popularity as this is the first major redesign for the Mustang in forever. Also, a lot of people are getting nostalgic with a design that is essentially a rip-off of Ford from 40 years ago. Plus, the Mustang has always been a well-known marque, much like the Corvette. The GTO name has been gone for some time prior to 2004.

As such, Car and Driver could easily get away with claiming the Ford was the winner. The Mustang is riding a wave of sentimental popularity right now.

They know the GTO is the better performance car, but they also don't want to undermine themselves after they picked the Mustang as the best muscle car in their 10Best. As such, they took the easy out and put the GTO 2nd due to subjective matter.

My opinion on the two is that the Mustang is an ugly copy of the past, boring, and uninteresting. It also has that blue oval on it, a tragedy in my eyes. :P The new GTO is the better muscle car. I also prefer its subdued look, though I prefer the scoopless 04 and the single-side exhaust it had.

Cliff notes: GTO > Mustang.

Indeed GTO > Crustang, ford wasnt appointed the acronym F***** Old Raggity Dump, Found On Road Dead, First On Race Day ( to the pit stop ) etc, etc for no reason. I have due reason to hate ford, My frist car my father bought me one day before he moved to LA some years ago, The thing lasted 1 week before it was immobile.

FORD- DROF

Driver Returns on Foot.

I never would have bought my 04 GTO now knowing the Mustang was going to bring so much trunk space to the table.

Has anyone written C&D on the review? I'm sure 90% of us want to.
I don't usually read C&D, I get Road and Track and Motertrend, I usually see some short disagreements in these mags.

:ph34r: just read car craft for crying out loud.. best magazine ever

Offtopic, but DirtWheels is an awesome magizine too.

The repressed anger on this board toward Mustang's is unreal. The 05 GTO received a definate shot of hp in the proverbial arm and is much better for it. But, a lot of the above arguments as to why the GTO should have won were downplayed by the same folks previously in comparos where the GTO gave up straight line performance to it's competitor.

If performance in general was all that mattered the 04 GTO would have never stood a chance against an 03/04 Cobra in a comparison. Many on this site pointed out other things the GTO offered that they believed offset the difference and made the GTO the superior car. But now when the roles are partially reversed they run to that very argument. And, the GTO did not beat the Mustang in every performance area as the handling may have been close, but in terms of sheer numbers the Mustang handles better!

The GTO has some definate advantages over the 05 Mustang GT such as better seats (although the pony's are nice) a livelier interior (if you want to complain that the Mustang got points for exterior style then take away the GTO's points for interior style) better steering and a bigger backseat.

The Mustang offered what they felt was far better exterior style, with the exception of steering they also felt it had better reaction and communication with the driver (especially the shifter, apparently they strongly disliked the GTO's), and better handling numbers even though they gave the GTO the nod in this area for better steering "feel" (a category as subjective as styling).

You can argue semantics and complain about subjective points, but if you take all of those nway the GTO loses some too as mentioned above. Take away the Goat's better handling score even though the Mustang posts better numbers and the points garnered by it's prettier interior and that seven point margin Goat lover's cite before the "Gotta have it factor" may dissapear just as readily.

Quality-wise C&D seemed to think bothc cars did very well so that was not playing a major role in this. They also seemed to think ride wquality was a toss-up too! When push comes to shove the GTO won some subjective categories, but lost some too. It seems odd to me to decry the one people here felt gave the Mustang too much advantage.

He's back.... :pain:

Once again Jizzer shows us two things

1. The difference between somebody who actually has something to say and somebody who does not

2. What the average third-grader might type in response to a post they dislike.

Thanks for the response Jiz, it was like reading Hemmingway.

I love GTOs and think they're better than Mustangs, but it seems that if you don't come here and worship the ground GTOs roll over, watch out...! :ph34r:

It is also funny that the negative posts are by lurkers that do not onw GTOs.

As for jaysaylor.... the only time my posts are meaningless are after yours which are meaningless :rolleyes:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies3/lurk.gif

Originally posted by TheJizzer@Dec 16 2004, 05:05 PM
It is also funny that the negative posts are by lurkers that do not onw GTOs.

As for jaysaylor.... the only time my posts are meaningless are after yours which are meaningless :rolleyes:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies3/lurk.gif
I did not say anything negative about the GTO in the post above. As a matter of fact, I complemented the 05 GTO in many ways. Even though I prefer the Mustang I actually like the GTO and think that it in some respects it takes too much criticism from auto enthusiasts/writers.

It would appear that not only does Jizzer not have much to add, he also does not bother to read the posts of those who do. He also would appear not understand the difference between trolling (which is what he really insinuates I am doing) and lurking. If you are going to insult somebody at least do it right. :afro:

Originally posted by TheJizzer@Dec 16 2004, 12:05 PM
It is also funny that the negative posts are by lurkers that do not onw GTOs.
True, but I'm not talking about negative posts, I'm talking about the perception of negativity and trolling. There's a big difference between "GTOs SUCK MUSTANGS RULE etc. etc." posts and posts that offer clear, objective analysis, such as, "While the GTO had a quicker zero-to-sixty time, the Mustang scored higher for skidpad grip than the GTO. The GTO's interior is great and has more space than the Mustang, but the trunkspace is less. Blah blah, so on and so forth." It's one thing to present opinion, and another to present reality. The car's attributes and statistics don't lie, but the GTO doesn't have too much to be ashamed of either.

It's a good car, but it seems like if someone wants to point out the mole on the supermodel's face, everyone flips out.

Originally posted by KMK454+Dec 16 2004, 12:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KMK454 @ Dec 16 2004, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheJizzer@Dec 16 2004, 12:05 PM
It is also funny that the negative posts are by lurkers that do not onw GTOs.
True, but I'm not talking about negative posts, I'm talking about the perception of negativity and trolling. There's a big difference between "GTOs SUCK MUSTANGS RULE etc. etc." posts and posts that offer clear, objective analysis, such as, "While the GTO had a quicker zero-to-sixty time, the Mustang scored higher for skidpad grip than the GTO. The GTO's interior is great and has more space than the Mustang, but the trunkspace is less. Blah blah, so on and so forth." It's one thing to present opinion, and another to present reality. The car's attributes and statistics don't lie, but the GTO doesn't have too much to be ashamed of either.

It's a good car, but it seems like if someone wants to point out the mole on the supermodel's face, everyone flips out. [/b][/quote]
Actually jsaylor is the only one I have a hard time with; seems like every time there is a GM related subject he has a negative comment.

You can call it what you want - but on a GM/Pontiac/GTO forum I do not need to hear that bologna.

I agree with you that constructive critism is very good...but when it is the same guy over and over on every post it gets old fast, very fast.

Fortunately, the "Gotta have it" factor IS subjective. Some of the writers for these car mags are as old as these two cars' names are. The "subjective" categories are probably an attempt to make these old horses feel young again. The GTO (IMO) is the better looking due to it's "speak softly & carry a big stick" attitude. I'm sure that in about a year we will see another shoot-out between these two. Only this time, it will be the '06 Mustang Cofart (I mean Cobra) vs. the '06 GTO. Can GM surprise us by slipping in a ringer (LS7-500hp)? :lol:

they can make the GTO lose all they want but its still the better car :)
the only justification that they had was the mustangs "better" looks.