The newest Motor Trend (Feb. 05) has a 3 way comparo between these three.

"Trio Grande" by Arthur St. Antoine

Red 05 M6 with scoops makes the cover with the other two (both silver). GTO was also the least expensive of the group.

GTO: around 34 K
CTS-V: 51,295
SRT-8: 43,295

05 GTO was also the lightest of the group

GTO: 3765
CTS-V: 3875
SRT-8: 4190 (oink oink oink)

To the important stuff.

We got beat. :angry:

0-60 times

GTO 5.0
SRT-8 4.9
CTS-V 4.7

Hmmm.... Wonder if they should have tested the A4 with Pontiac's claimed 4.6 which would have beaten them all. Either that or teach the MT bozos how to drive.

Quarter mile

GTO 13.3 @ 107.5
SRT-8 13.2 @ 108.1
CTS-V 13.1 @ 109.8

I'm finding the 300C quarter times and 0-60 times a little suspect as it is the heaviest even with a 25 HP and 25 TQ advantage with it's 6.1 L Hemi. It has the tallest gears 3.06 to the Goats 3.46 and the Caddies 3.73's and it's the slushbox 5 speed automatic. It even has the worst lb per HP ratio. Hmmmmm. I smell ringer.

Braking 60-0

GTO 121 ft
SRT-8 113 ft
CTS-V 111 ft

200 ft skidpad

GTO 0.85g
SRT-8 0.88g
CTS-V 0.90g

Now how is that fat pig of a 300C pulling a better skidpad number? I do see both CTS and 300 are wearing Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires while our goat has the BF Goodrich G-Force TA's. Makes me wonder if we had the Goodyears if we would have bested the 300C and come close to beating the CTS-V.

600 ft slalom

GTO 63.6 mph
CTS-V 66.8 mph
SRT-8 67.3 mph

<_< Once again the big behemoth somehow manages a faster slalom speed. I'm not buying it.

So the 05 pretty much gets 3rd in every performance category, granted we are at a BIG $$$$ disadvantage.

Oh and here a totally a$$inine comment by Chris Walton who did the Figure 8 road course.

Pontiac/Acceleration

" The GTO is unwinding onto the straight nicely; the archaic rear axle is certainly putting the power down better than I'd expect. Third is needed befor braking."

ARCHAIC REAR AXLE???? :rolleyes: WTF is this boner talking about? He believes the GTO has a solid rear axle? What an idiot. He's spent too much time in the ARCHAIC 05 Rustang GT with it's solid rear axle and doesn't even know the GTO has IRS. What a complete dolt. And these are the "Experts".

It's an interesting read but by placing the 300C SRT-8 in the lead on the cover just shows they are "rooting" for it all along and the numbers show. I smell a DC ringer and Motor Trend trying to sell more mags by putting the highest volume seller in the best light possible.

Anyone else read the article?

I chop it up to driver error.

look at the stats, that alone is enough.

A $44k behemoth of a vehicle that people will f'in flock to (as if they havent already flooded the roads with 300C's both Hemi and cheep non-Hemi versions). It'll be a cold day in hell before I pay $45k+ on top of god knows what sort of dealer markups for a fugly looking slushy feeling boat of a Chrysler.

On that note, its still no suprise. Again with Motortrend as with C&D, they were either favoring the car they will most likely pick as their "Car of the Year" (even if in another trim level) same as C&D did vs the Mustang GT. And we know these puzzies dont drive M6's for shizit. I have no doubt both the CTS-V and SRT-8 were slush boxes. (Hi, why not compare slush boxes to other slush boxes? At least it eliminates the human factor.)

None the less, the real results people are after will come in the form of non-pussified magazines that thrash their cars with drivers who know how to shift without taking a snooze between gears. Hell, my almost 11 second Honda could easily run low 12's or depending on how harsh you launched and if you snoozed between gears, it might barely pull a 13 at only a few mph slower.

The CTSV is a standard only.

Hmm, lets see... C&D managed 0.88g on skidpad but MT could only muster a 0.85g? That only goes to show you that 'test results' are subject to a great deal of error both human and uncontrollable. IE: Whats to say on a second pass the GTO could run a 0.90 or the other cars run a 0.84? Given a 0.03g margin of error between results, any difference +/- 0.03g between results is basicly moot.

Freakin shame they didnt test the same brake speeds. But i'd be willing to bet from a higher speed the lighter car would clearly win out. (How the f did they stop the 4200lb boat faster than the GTO which has already grippy stoppers from the Vette?!) I dont believe that a BIT. Unless of course they gave it a handicap of 30 feet. :tongue:

And 0-60 in only 5.0?? Who was driving? My grandfather? Shiesh... Becides, it simply doesnt add up... The GTO has the best weight to power ratio. Yet had the slowest 1/4 mile (including trap speed) and the worst 0-60? Again, even C&D performed 2 tenths better in the 0-60 measurement (placing it 1 tenth behind the CTS-V) and roughly the same in the 1/4 mile, which again can be accounted to the 6MT vs slushbox tested in the SRT-8.

The slalom doesnt make a bit of sence either... How exactly does one 'throw around' a 4200lb car at nearly C6 Vette (Z51 package even!) speeds through the slalom? From January 05 MT, page 76: C6 Z51 600 foot slalom 68.9mph; 200ft skidpad 0.96g; braking 60-0 113 feet. Wait, so Motortrend is telling me by some miracle of science a 4200lb car performed AS GOOD AS a 3200lb car in slalom and braking 60-0? I'm not sure which article stinks worse now, MT's or C&D's. Retards...

Well the GTO can be a bit tricky to launch.

Those are some of the best numbers yet for the CTS-V, but it seems kind of fishy that it outperformed the Goat (being over 100 lbs heavier and having slightly less torque). I guess the major car rags really have it out for our beloved goat. Did MT have anything good to say about the car? I'd be interested to see if the A4 in the 2005 really is faster than the M6. So far the numbers from CD and Motortrend on the M6 have been kind of disappointing. Maybe they got a ragged out pre-production test car. I have no doubt that once some real enthusiast mags get a hold of a 2005, we'll be seeing high 12's in the quarter. On a positive note, it's good to see a $33K car hold it's own against $43K and $51K cars (not really in the same class price wise). IMHO, the 2005 at $33K is a pretty good deal even when compared to the cheaper (and slower) 2005 Mustang. I remember all the car rags going on and on about how the 2003-2004 SVT Cobra was such a great deal for the money. Well, the 2005 Goat costs even less than the Cobra and should offer similar performance with heaps more refinement.

What doesnt make any sence now is the fact they had a 1 foot longer stopping distance than their 04 test mule. Now why would that be considering the 05 gets considerably upgraded brakes?

Their 04 results only could muster up a 0.80 skidpad so their newest result is an improvement yes? But wait... The suspension wasnt changed for 05. Hrm, go figure.

They pulled exactly 0.1mph faster in the slalom test from 04 to 05, though no suprise here since the suspension wasnt changed. (Again, how did their skidpad results vary so much from 04 to 05 then?)

For comparo sake, they tested the WRX STi (with a wicked set of Brembo stoppers) 60-0 in 111 feet. It isnt a heavy car by any means and it has rather large brakes with strong 4 piston calipers. How a 4200lb car somehow manages to almost match that of a race ready rally car is beyond me? Hell, even the 05 Porsche Carrera S pulled 106 feet 60-0 which is only a few feet better than their massive luxo boats results. Smells like fish in here now!

First thing that comes to mind is, their test drivers suck at being consistant... The next thought is, the stock tires on the GTO are underperforming compared to those on the CTS-V and SRT-8. Thats ok, let their numbers show performance less than what real world results will prove. Some sticky summer rubber on all four corners and i'll be good to go.

Something in those numbers just does not make any sense. Anyone got the HP/Torque numbers for the 3 vehicles?
Although I do believe the Rubber can make that much difference in the vehicle times/handling..remember the BF tires have a snow rating to them....which kills performance numbers.
But the gearing of the 300 just does not make sense. Maybe if it had the 4.10 gears.

I know the GTO is 400/400 but what about the other 2?

I believe the Caddy has 395 lb-ft. The 300 is something like 420 lb-ft.

Ok with the 300s Trap speed,1/4 mile time, gearing and weight I would say there is 0% drivetrain loss in the vehicle at 425hp. And I did not take in to account driver and gas weight. Which would mean this vehicle has a positive% drivetrain loss or WAYYYY under rated power. SO did Chrysler send them a "special" car..or did they just fudge the numbers?

MotorTrend has always had slower numbers than other magazines. But nothing unusual.

I think it does make a difference that Car&Driver run their 0-60 test downhill, but other than that MotorTrend is just more conservative.

Ok I did some more crunching....

Now the 3.73s in the Caddy would explian how an equally powered vehicle with a bit more weight can be faster than the GTO with its gearing...

But no way in any way that I configured the 300 could it be getting those numbers at that wieght with those gears at that HP/T...it is humanly or mechanically not possible!

The car is DEFINETLY under-rated or they gave the magazine a "tuned" vehicle.

In simple terms it would take every bit of 425/425 to move 4100lbs 1320' in that time.


:bs:

Just so everyone knows, the 6.1L HEMI in the 300 SRT-8 in underrated...there is no ringer there, jus clever marketing.....wow....my car weighs couple hundred more pounds has the same horsepower, but mine still wins!!! Its obvious, and once they start gettin into owners hands and onto dyno's, you'll see. I believe the GTO and CTS-V's both have 6speed manuals, and they both got whooped for an auto equipped car....couldnt imagine the numbers in a 6speed version....Dont flame, im just stating the obvious. Because i myself am looking for a new GTO, but you guys hafta give credit where credit is due....Chrysler built a kick a** 4door that will blow the doors off a GTO....there's nothin else to it....i dont wanna hear driver error an all that s***...b/c if the GTO had won, and the SRT-8 comin in a close second, the SRT-8 just isnt as fast...no driver error...quit crying a river and face reality....it isnt as fast!!!! So what!!

Chrysler built a kick a** 4door that will blow the doors off a GTO....there's nothin else to it....i dont wanna hear driver error an all that s***...b/c if the GTO had won, and the SRT-8 comin in a close second, the SRT-8 just isnt as fast...no driver error...quit crying a river and face reality....it isnt as fast!!!! So what!!


Hello there, you are at a GTO site and you think we are going to agree with these numbers?

Firstly, I don't call 0.1 sec to 60 and 0.1 sec in the quarter "blowing the doors off". What is that half a car length. By those standards when the A4 runs a 4.6 to the 4.9 a difference of 0.3 seconds the GTO will be "blowing off the doors" and trunk and hood by your definition. If we want to debate driver error, guess what we can and WILL, like it or leave your choice.

The braking distances are easily explained, the SRT-8 has 14.2 fronts and 13.8 rears vs. the GTO's 11.7 fronts and 11.3 rears. Then again the SRT-8 has 20 inch wheels. Easy to put big dinner plates stoppers in there vs. the GTO's relatively small 17 inch wheels. Spend a few thousand on 19 inch wheels and bigger binders and the GTO will stop in less feet. It's simple physics. A less massive car will stop shorter. But it doesn't have them so advantage SRT-8.

I would not back down in an instant from an stock SRT-8 in a stock 05 GTO. Races on the street will prove if these numbers are bunk. In which I believe they are. So save your pennies buddy and as soon as you land your SRT-8 I'm sure many 05 owners will take up a race with your 300C. I wouldn't even be scared in my "lowly" 04 with my "measly" 350 HP to go up against some SRT-8 driver as it will most likely be some late fifties something banker type that bought it as a prestige car to impress his young secretary and it won't ever be raced anyway.

Dont flame, im just stating the obvious. Because i myself am looking for a new GTO

You are looking for a new GTO but your user name is 300SRT-8??? :blink:
Riiiiiiiight..... :rolleyes:

If we want to debate these numbers it is our right on this site. If you want to debate in the favor of the 300C fine, BUT ... Popping out from under the bridge like a troll and telling GTO owners and fans to quit crying is asking for trouble and if kept up will have it's consequences. Debate the info and bring some numbers and keep it civil and all will be fine.

I'm stating what I think. I believe this 300C was a ringer and the driving was suspect. I've got numbers to back it up. Come this spring when the 300C SRT-8's hit the road then we will have our answer.

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Dec 29 2004, 05:30 PM
The braking distances are easily explained, the SRT-8 has 14.2 fronts and 13.8 rears vs. the GTO's 11.7 fronts and 11.3 rears.
Granted 14.2's and 13.8's are massive rotors, but i'm thinking the greater benifit was the larger low profile Goodyears with no doubt a better compound for such testing. Now how many people keep the stock all season tires on a car they wish to squeeze 100% of the performance out of? Basicly nobody, unless the stock rubber happens to be Pirelli P-Zero system.

Remember, for 05 the front rotors were increased to just about 12.8" which for the weight is probably just about right. But why wouldnt it stop even as good as the 04 GTO they tested a year ago? (Which stopped in 120 feet from 60mph which is 1 foot shorter than their 05 test vehicle?!) Odd indeed...

Well for one, the CTSV beat the SRT, now comparing numbers the GTO is 100 LBS lighter than the CTSV, yet the GTO came in last?

Not only did MT not hit GM's official numbers for 0-60, but they did it closer to that of the 04's 0-60 time.

60 MPH is 1 mile per minute,
5280Ft per minute
88ft per second
.1 seconds at 60 mph is 8.8 ft, a little more than 1/2 a car length.

GMs numbers for the 05 GTO are 4.6 for the auto, 4.7 for the standard. MT got 4.9 for the 300, so theoretically the GTO should have 26.4 Ft lead, or roughly 1 1/2 - 2 car lengths.

I smell driver error. If the car comes out and is proven to be underrated by dynos then I will admit that it is more powerful then it is rated, but this one test doesn't mean anything. Even Car and Driver got a faster 0-60 time for the GTO (4.8) which puts it faster than the 300.

The proof is in the pudding, and this pudding tasts like chrysler. :eatarrow: :hysterical:

Originally posted by 300SRT-8@Dec 29 2004, 04:01 PM
Just so everyone knows, the 6.1L HEMI in the 300 SRT-8 in underrated...there is no ringer there, jus clever marketing.....wow....my car weighs couple hundred more pounds has the same horsepower, but mine still wins!!! Its obvious, and once they start gettin into owners hands and onto dyno's, you'll see. I believe the GTO and CTS-V's both have 6speed manuals, and they both got whooped for an auto equipped car....couldnt imagine the numbers in a 6speed version....Dont flame, im just stating the obvious. Because i myself am looking for a new GTO, but you guys hafta give credit where credit is due....Chrysler built a kick a** 4door that will blow the doors off a GTO....there's nothin else to it....i dont wanna hear driver error an all that s***...b/c if the GTO had won, and the SRT-8 comin in a close second, the SRT-8 just isnt as fast...no driver error...quit crying a river and face reality....it isnt as fast!!!! So what!!
Wheew! thank goodness in my racing experience ive never lined up next to a magazine.Id think that Popular Hotrodding would be faster than motor-trend :huh: . Ive been waiting YEARS to see that superchevy VS. fordpower showdown at the track. :pain: you can have that Chrysler slob.

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Dec 29 2004, 05:30 PM
Chrysler built a kick a** 4door that will blow the doors off a GTO....there's nothin else to it....i dont wanna hear driver error an all that s***...b/c if the GTO had won, and the SRT-8 comin in a close second, the SRT-8 just isnt as fast...no driver error...quit crying a river and face reality....it isnt as fast!!!! So what!!


Hello there, you are at a GTO site and you think we are going to agree with these numbers?

Firstly, I don't call 0.1 sec to 60 and 0.1 sec in the quarter "blowing the doors off". What is that half a car length. By those standards when the A4 runs a 4.6 to the 4.9 a difference of 0.3 seconds the GTO will be "blowing off the doors" and trunk and hood by your definition. If we want to debate driver error, guess what we can and WILL, like it or leave your choice.

The braking distances are easily explained, the SRT-8 has 14.2 fronts and 13.8 rears vs. the GTO's 11.7 fronts and 11.3 rears. Then again the SRT-8 has 20 inch wheels. Easy to put big dinner plates stoppers in there vs. the GTO's relatively small 17 inch wheels. Spend a few thousand on 19 inch wheels and bigger binders and the GTO will stop in less feet. It's simple physics. A less massive car will stop shorter. But it doesn't have them so advantage SRT-8.

I would not back down in an instant from an stock SRT-8 in a stock 05 GTO. Races on the street will prove if these numbers are bunk. In which I believe they are. So save your pennies buddy and as soon as you land your SRT-8 I'm sure many 05 owners will take up a race with your 300C. I wouldn't even be scared in my "lowly" 04 with my "measly" 350 HP to go up against some SRT-8 driver as it will most likely be some late fifties something banker type that bought it as a prestige car to impress his young secretary and it won't ever be raced anyway.

Dont flame, im just stating the obvious. Because i myself am looking for a new GTO

You are looking for a new GTO but your user name is 300SRT-8??? :blink:
Riiiiiiiight..... :rolleyes:

If we want to debate these numbers it is our right on this site. If you want to debate in the favor of the 300C fine, BUT ... Popping out from under the bridge like a troll and telling GTO owners and fans to quit crying is asking for trouble and if kept up will have it's consequences. Debate the info and bring some numbers and keep it civil and all will be fine.

I'm stating what I think. I believe this 300C was a ringer and the driving was suspect. I've got numbers to back it up. Come this spring when the 300C SRT-8's hit the road then we will have our answer.
**** ORBIT!!!

I LOVE YOU MAN! :friday:

Every time you post I smile bigger and bigger...

And for the record the larger brakes in the 300 also make the numbers :bs: -- remember more mass is harder to turn...so it is just another prick in the :bs: flag

60 MPH is 1 mile per minute,
5280Ft per minute
88ft per second
.1 seconds at 60 mph is 8.8 ft, a little more than 1/2 a car length.


Thank you Nocturn. :D

I was close on my guess of 1/2 a car length then. So a difference of .3 sec would be about 1 and a half car lengths.

Remember, for 05 the front rotors were increased to just about 12.8" which for the weight is probably just about right. But why wouldnt it stop even as good as the 04 GTO they tested a year ago? (Which stopped in 120 feet from 60mph which is 1 foot shorter than their 05 test vehicle?!) Odd indeed...

Thanks for that CSI. :D

And here an informed car mag can't even get the brake sizes right, they were just too lazy to check to see if the sizes changed and went with the 04 brake sizes. Some experts huh? I see the SRT-8's are also Brembo's. They may have more pistons per binder too which help more evenly distribute the brake forces. The SRT8 also has 255 series rears, so the tires were helping out too. So yes it outbrakes the GTO but it SHOULD given the nicer equipment. Not by much though.

Wheew! thank goodness in my racing experience ive never lined up next to a magazine.Id think that Popular Hotrodding would be faster than motor-trend . Ive been waiting YEARS to see that superchevy VS. fordpower showdown at the track.

Funny stuff! :hysterical:

I'm with you, I don't see many 05 GTO drivers shaking in their boots when lining up against the SRT-8 300C. And like I said, who is going to be driving these things? Old, wealthy bankers and buisnessmen taking Viagra on their way to the country club. They won't even know how to ring out the most out of this car anyway. Oh, I forgot the gangsta rappers too, with the huge 24 inch DUB's all ghettoed out. They are in it for the performance. :rolleyes:

**** ORBIT!!!
I LOVE YOU MAN!*

Thanks, but I hope you mean Platonically of course. :D

I agree with you on the rotational mass thing, but I would think the braking surface area on the rotors would outweigh the inertia thing. (Highly technical talk there.) ;)

I'm glad I can entertain someone Jizzer! You'd probably like another member (cvp33) who hasn't posted here for some time. He bought a CTS-V and hasn't posted for awhile. His posts literally brought tears to my eyes they were so funny. You'd get a kick out of him. Maybe I'll PM him and try to get him to post again.

:)

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Dec 29 2004, 08:38 PM
**** ORBIT!!!
I LOVE YOU MAN!*

Thanks, but I hope you mean Platonically of course. :D

I agree with you on the rotational mass thing, but I would think the braking surface area on the rotors would outweigh the inertia thing. (Highly technical talk there.) ;)

I'm glad I can entertain someone Jizzer! You'd probably like another member who hasn't posted here for some time. He bought a CTS-V and hasn't posted for awhile. His posts literally brought tears to my eyes they were so funny. You'd get a kick out of him. Maybe I'll PM him and try to get him to post again.

:)
That would be great...I would love to hear about his V...

As for rotating mass I was refering to acceleration -- harder to start a larger mass.

And BTW!!!

Nocturn -- I love you to man...your posts are also on th etop of my list - though you are a bit more reserved as the diplomatic type :D

:lol: Is all good :afro:

The rotating mass thing only applies to the driving wheels, the larger rotors are just old fashioned chassis weight on the front wheels. But the larger rotors on the back when converted to chassis weight is more than the actual weight of the rotors....if that makes sence. Either way the benefits of the larger rotors outweigh the extra weight, especially since the most braking work is done on the front rotors which dont bear (forgive the pun) the rotating weight.

Nocturn pretty much summed up my point in saying the 05 GTO gets 12.8" rotors up front (same in rear as 04) since the FRONT does the great majority of braking anyhow. (I cant quote % front/rear but i'm sure it is at least 60-70% front.)

I'd almost be willing to bet they didnt even test the GTO. Either they used a not fully up to spec 05 dummy car (that was quite the dummy indeed), an 04 GTO (hmm, darn fast 04 though) OR they just pulled numbers out of their arse based on the 04's results and what they suspect the 05 will do considering changes.

In any case, magazine racing is retarded... Just like bragging about big horsepower dyno numbers that dont get you down the track. (Hi, anyone have a Supra in the house?) The 05 GTO will spank the doors off the 300C in real life, I have no doubt about that. Unless by some mistake Chrysler underrated the SRT-8 by so much that it infact makes 425 horsepower to the ground which would be completely unsafe in the hands of soccer moms and people with too much money who want to look cool in their bling ride. But that I cant see happening.

Hello all! I haven't posted in quite awhile, but this topic obviously hits close to home. As the owner of my second CTS-V I'm glad to see how well the V performed. These are by far the best numbers I've seen. Finally getting close to the GM quoted performance.

I'm surprised at the price on the Hemi. Early reports had it at $49,995. Interesting that they had to lower it. Probably didn't have a real strong value/content equation to justify the near $50K retail or the target demographic was being priced out of the market. I do know that they missed the mark on the SRT-6 and are probably wanting another winner like the SRT-10. This may have also factored into the decline in retail. Very surprised that the Hemi handles as well as they say. If those slalom numbers are correct they are incredible. I can tell you I've driven the CTS-V very aggressively at it is positively glued to the road and not because of the GY runflats they are the worst.

The best news is that with Chrysler becoming a true competitor vs. the V GM will either have to look at incentives on the CTS-V or up the HP even higher to the rumored 500 HP level using the LS7. This is good stuff.

As far as the GTO numbers go, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Early tests had the '04 Goat running the quarter mile in 14 seconds flat. And we've all seen reports of "real world" drivers hitting 13.1-13.3 with no mods. One thing is for certain, the LS2 is the real deal with a broad torque curve and 400 real live ponies. In the hands of a true enthusiast the new Goat will be in the 12's with no mod's and solidly in the 12's with a CAI.

Here's a picture of the "old" Raven Black and the "new" PlatinumMy Webpage (http://forums.gminsidenews.com/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=5703)

And by the way Orbit Orange, all you had to do was put out the bat signal and I'd come running in. Seriously though, I've been lurking a lot but only post when appropriate.

Take care,

Chris

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Dec 29 2004, 08:30 PM
I was close on my guess of 1/2 a car length then. So a difference of .3 sec would be about 1 and a half car lengths.

Not to be too picky, but the difference is actually less than that. Acceleration (starting from 0mph) is a=v/t and distance is x= 1/2 a * t^2.
Plug this in and you get 220 ft for a car to accelerate 0-60 in 5 secs ,and 215.6 in 4.9 secs for a grand total of a 4.4 ft advantage.
4.7 secs 0-60 would require 206.8 ft. Difference of 13.2 ft.

Whats the length of these cars again? :D

Hey look who the cat dragged in! :P

Good to see a post from you. I thought this one would have a chance seeing it pitted the Goat vs. the CTS-V.

Hope you haven't whipped up on too many Goat owners in your V.

And keep your eyes out for the 05's (whenever they finally get here) they might just give you a run for the money. Hey I've got an idea, let's have a 3 way comparo when this SRT-8 comes out and us GM boys will flog the Daimler/Chrysler Slopar crew.

Good to hear from you. Leave us a post every now and then. I think my sides have finally healed from some of your earlier HILARIOUS posts. :)

You just had to go and bring in the acceleration formulas didnt you. :lol:

I believe the GTO is around 189 inches, or 15.75 ft.

Not to be too picky, but the difference is actually less than that. Acceleration (starting from 0mph) is a=v/t and distance is x= 1/2 a * t^2.
Plug this in and you get 220 ft for a car to accelerate 0-60 in 5 secs ,and 215.6 in 4.9 secs for a grand total of a 4.4 ft advantage.
4.7 secs 0-60 would require 206.8 ft. Difference of 13.2 ft.

Oooooo, Equations and math, all right!!! :D

Thank you Forestdweller. Now this colossal buttkicking that the vaunted SRT-8 will shell out on the poor 05 GTO by the mags is down to 4 feet and 5 inches. (A fender length). Take the 4.6 time Pontiac quotes and it's 13.2 feet ( nearly a car length). Close, close, close. If the testers of the M6 GTO are a little slow on their shifts, or a little out of the optimum rev range then there is the difference.

Bench racing at it's best. ;)

I can't wait to call Motor Trend's and DC's bluff when 05 GTO's are laying the smack down on this brick out on the streets and strips (like we'll see a SRT-8 at the strip).

OO,

Will do. And no I haven't raced any GTO's yet. I do know one in particular who's interested. We may have to schedule something. I've had my share of GT's, 350Z's and M3's though. They're all a hoot. Most folks STILL don't know what a V is. That's a blessing.

Take care,

V out

cvp

I just took a gander at your latest V.

NIIIIIIICE! :afro:

You are living right my friend.

Take care and happy hunting. ;)

Well I just found ANOTHER dumb@$$ mistake made by MT in the article.

I'm looking down the page of stats and see Seating Capacity:

CTS-V : 5
SRT-8 : 5
GTO : 5

5 in the GTO????
:blink:

Who the h#ll is the unlucky schmuck who gets to ride the tiny patch between the 2 rear bucket seats??? Hope they are either a 3 year old or a dwarf and hope they don't want a seatbelt.

What a bunch of @$$clowns. Do they even look around inside what they are driving? Motor Trend has slipped recently in my eyes. It's strangely coincided with their new Editor-in-chief Angus MacKenzie. Hmmmm.

Seats 5 :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

I'll see how many more mistakes I can find. Pathetic really.

This is one engine screaming for a cover. ****ed that's ugly.

6.1 liters of fugly (http://www.fast-autos.net/chrysler/srt85.html)

That CTS-V is one hell of a car I must say! It's truly an M5 fighter.

Hey
New to the site. I may not own a GTO but huge fan of them and had test driven one, insurance was a little to high for somone fresh from college. I am a diehard GM enthusiast. Is the SRT-8 all wheel drive? (i havent been able to find that out anywhere)If that were tha case that would count for a larger % of power loss through that much drive train, if so one would have to agree that the numers are a little fudged. You have to remember as well had they not joined with Benz this would have NEVER been possible considering the lead design on the engine did the 500 for benz and that many drivetrain parts are from AMG. So when chrysler actually builds there OWN car with their parts then maybe give them some credit until then go eat some more kraut :tongue:

Originally posted by vncj96@Dec 30 2004, 11:03 AM
Hey
New to the site. I may not own a GTO but huge fan of them and had test driven one, insurance was a little to high for somone fresh from college. I am a diehard GM enthusiast. Is the SRT-8 all wheel drive? (i havent been able to find that out anywhere)If that were tha case that would count for a larger % of power loss through that much drive train, if so one would have to agree that the numers are a little fudged. You have to remember as well had they not joined with Benz this would have NEVER been possible considering the lead design on the engine did the 500 for benz and that many drivetrain parts are from AMG. So when chrysler actually builds there OWN car with their parts then maybe give them some credit until then go eat some more kraut :tongue:
The SRT-8 was not AWD. Furthermore, neither the 300 or the 300C SRT-8 share any mechanical components with any vehicle from AMG.

Hey
Beg to differ the rear end is directly from AMG so are half shafts and other various drivetrain components you can find this out from Chrylser themselves

One last thing Chrysler didnt design the five speed auto either that was a benz engineer that brought that to life.

Not to start a "cross board war" or anything, I'd just like to point out some things:

The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum aren't based on Mercedes platforms! And almost no direct components are shared. The car that beat your 2 door is a great car (so is your GTO, aside from it's bland looks). Have any of you actually driven a 300? I suggest you do before making comments...

I've seen lots of variances in the LX car's numbers. A stock C (Hemi model) can run mid to low 5's given the right conditions, but I've also seen owners reporting numbers as high as 6.4 seconds, and can't get it any faster. So given that a 300C with the 5.7L can do mid 5's, the 300C SRT-8 numbers don't seem suspect at all. 20" wheels have something do do with the SRT-8's good handling characteristics...

And remember, all of the cars tested are American, so regardless of our brand loyalty (mines Mopar, as you can probably tell by my first post, and my sig) we should be proud that a Caddy, Chrysler, and a Pontiac all posted just great numbers - as the difference in those numbers is almost irrelevant. In the end, it comes down to what brand you fancy, and styling.

Best regards,

Chris H. :)

I can't believe you guys are baggin' on the SRT-8. First of all I would be pissed at GM for labeling a warmed over Grand Am with a nice powertrain with the great GTO name. Just like I am pissed at daimler-chrysler for bringing back the charger as a four door :) At any rate, I have driven a standard 300C and it would give a new GTO a run for it's money. The modified suspension / brakes / increased engine output of the SRT-8 give it a clear advantage. It is AWESOME that a car approaching 4200 lbs. with driver can perform at the level of the SRT-8. It may not be a sports car, but it is cool in it's own way. When you get spanked by one on the street then what are you gonna say? How does it feel to get spanked by the SRT-4 NEON? LOL So quit bashing us and start bashing GM. This modern muscle car era we are experiencing is great, the competition between GM, Ford and YES MOPAR is what will bring more power and better cars to the market.

And remember, all of the cars tested are American, so regardless of our brand loyalty (mines Mopar, as you can probably tell by my first post, and my sig) we should be proud that a Caddy, Chrysler, and a Pontiac all posted just great numbers


I wouldn't be so sure as to the above statement though. Is Daimler Chrysler not in theory "owned" by Germans? I still call Chrysler/Dodge American companies but I'm not so sure I should anymore. I'll agree with the last part of your statement about being proud of the great numbers posted.


The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum aren't based on Mercedes platforms! And almost no direct components are shared. The car that beat your 2 door is a great car (so is your GTO, aside from it's bland looks). Have any of you actually driven a 300? I suggest you do before making comments...


The "bland looks" statement is purely your opinion. I happen to find it good looking. It's subjective. So if I were to say the 300C looks like a big fat ugly brick had mated with toaster that would be my opinion only and not fact as you seem to imply. No I have not personally driven a 300C but MANY on the site have. And I'll make comments if I d@mn well please seeing this is a GTO board and not a Slowpar board.

A stock C (Hemi model) can run mid to low 5's given the right conditions, but I've also seen owners reporting numbers as high as 6.4 seconds, and can't get it any faster. So given that a 300C with the 5.7L can do mid 5's, the 300C SRT-8 numbers don't seem suspect at all.

Low 5's huh? :bs:

I find those numbers suspect given the weight. Just as I find the SRT-8's 0-60 and quarter times suspect too.

I'd love to line up against the an overweight brick of a 300C but the only ones I see around here seem to be driven by 60 plus year old WOMEN. I doubt I'll get a race.

Now lastly, I know I'm being harsh and overcritical and "jerkish". But even when you come waving a white flag I still see jabs in your post. I didn't go over to your 300C/Magnum site badmouthing your car. I'm doing it here in an environment where like minded GTO owners can commisurate with one another. If we want to debate these numbers it is OUR RIGHT on this site and if you don't like it leave and stay at your own site and badmouth the GTO all you want. Frankly I don't care as I'll never be there to read the posts anyway. And never once did I personally call the 300C SRT-8 a "bad" car. I have called some of MT's testing numbers suspect. If they weren't why wouldn't these 300C lovers start crawling out of the woodwork all of the sudden? Have I touched on something DC wants to cover up to push their bloated land yacht?

All right, I'm done ranting. If you'd like to debate the numbers fine. I don't wan't a flame war either. I'm glad you love your 300C, but just because a few GTO owners doubt the times of the not yet released SRT-8 doesn't mean every 300C owner has to argue the point. Makes you wonder if they are a little insecure. Feel free to continue discussing, just remember your Admistrator title of your 300C/Magnum site doesn't grant you special rights or priveleges over here. If that makes me a jerk then alright, I really am a pretty mellow fella at heart. But my passion for the GTO often overtakes reason. Glad you are equally as passionate about your 300C.

Welcome to the board. B)

I don't know how you can use the term slowpar.. Let's see, the SRT-10 Truck, The Viper, The SRT-8 300C and the SRT-4 Neon are all great performance cars in their own right. The GTO has some decent performance, but it's nothing special in todays market. The styling is bland and it really does not deserve the title GTO. I don't understand how you can bag on the 300C's very cool and unique look when the GTO looks like an old grand-am...

While I respect E8502's post, Sublime better watch his tongue or you might find youself not welcome here anymore. On the other side I welcome all you 300C fans who found our site if you havn't been here before. Hopefully this will become a friendly rivalry :friday:

Keep in mind this is a NEW GTO board, so we LIKE the cars looks, so calling it a warmed over Grand Am is a bit of insult to all of us here who like the car.

While the new LX cars may be mostly Chrysler, One can't say they are pure Chrysler anymore as nothing made from them is without some German parts. Not that this is neccesarily bad, just logically it makes sence for DCX to use parts from one division into another (see Gm's Subaru/Saab platforms). So I wouldn't doubt that many parts from the LX cars are shared in other MB cars.

As for the numbers, a SRT4 is quick, but will not stand up to the GTO, I don't even know why that was mentioned.

Simple number comparing will show that the 04 GTO is faster than a 5.7 300C with a standard, not to mention the 300's 3.07 gear. (im not sure if its exactly 3.07 but I remember it being pretty low).

The question is though comparing 05 GTO, with an SRT8. While all we can do is bench race for now since I don't think either car is in dealer lots yet, going on specs alone the GTO comes out ahead. It has close to 500 less LBS, while only 25 less HP.

I personally don't like the styling of the 300C, but I won't disregard that its a performer or a great car for Chrysler.

As for the slowpar comment, The SRT4 is being challenged by the Cobalt SS supercharged, the SRT6 is overpriced and out of its market audiance, the SRT8 is directly challeneged by the CTSV/GTO, and the Viper (while I like it better) is going to be slower than the new Z06 if they don't change anything.

I never said that they are a patform car to the benz they do however share some parts and my piont is that had it not been for chrysler and benz merging the performance cars that chrysler is building might have been alot harder to produce

sublime look at your own post for just a second.

I have thought the styling of the current GTO is too bland for the name since I have seen it's pictures.

The key words are "I thought". That means that is your opinion and NOT a fact. That is your opinion. NOT most of ours. It's SUBJECTIVE!!!



The reason I pointed the styling out is that you guys have bagged on the styling of the 300C, which I happen to think is very cool.

Once again I see "I happen to think". Again, opinion. I'm glad you feel that way. If we thought the 300C looked great and the Goat looked poor we'd be over on your site. You don't see me over there do you? I think the 300C looks like a tank married a Kleenex Box. But it's my opinion. Noone can change that. It's not a fact. It's just how I feel. If you don't like the looks of the GTO fine. That doesn't mean I HAVE to like the looks of the 300C.

All the SRT vehicles are respectable cars. Sorry.. You can't say they don't perform.

Can you find a post ANYWHERE in this thread where it says SRT vehicles Don't perform? Noone ever said that. Don't jump to some conclussion without any facts. We are debating Motor Trend's numbers, relax.

Now the thread is about Motor Trend's test. Not a chest-thumping GM vs. Mopar flame war. So if the 300C SRT-8 can run these times what REAL evidence do you or any 300C fan have to back up these times? Is it gearing? Is the Hemi underrated? What is it? I wan't some hard evidence and without any to the contrary I refuse to believe these claims until both meet on the streets this Spring/Summer. If you've got information, please share.

Originally posted by vncj96@Dec 30 2004, 03:06 PM
I never said that they are a patform car to the benz they do however share some parts and my piont is that had it not been for chrysler and benz merging the performance cars that chrysler is building might have been alot harder to produce
I definantly agree, prior to the merging it appeared like chrysler was on its way out (i.e. plymoth/oldsmobile). They just didn't really have any good cars, Maybe the PT cruiser (unsure if that was prior to the merg), but for the whole the merg has been favorable to the market, the Crossfire (while IMO a bit overpriced or underpowered depending on the trim you get) the new Viper (which I think is arms and legs above the old one), and now the LX cars are definantly an improvement to the previouis chrysler cars.

Interesting, you guys are sensitive. My last post was deleted..

Could the reason be that you are upset that the GTO's sales numbers are so bad?

I don't think we will have any real answers to the '05 GTO vs. SRT-8 until a few weeks after they are on the streets. If you don't want chest thumping mopar vs. GM, then how about refraining from terms like slowpar for a minute and stick to the numbers? So far the only numbers we have show the SRT-8 beating the GTO. I don't particularly care for the magazine and I think the real world will show a different story. But remember. We are talking about a 4000+ lb. 4 door car that can hang with the GTO. Explain that to me...

If you refrain from throwing in simple subjective styling insults to the board then your post wont be deleted.

The GTO numbers were lower than expected, but that is not a surprise. Many people want a car thats unique and uncommon. I.e. Not a mustang. The low production numbers keeps the car rare, and we prefer it that way.

Ask a Viper owner why they got one over a Z06 that is equally fast, and they will say because Corvettes are eveywhere. The same applies to the GTO.

You want us to justify the numbers in a magazine you yourself 'don't particularly care for the magazine and I think the real world will show a different story"?

While I do not like the magazine, it is the only set of numbers we have. I do not think the SRT-8 used was a ringer and I believe the 6.1 hemi is under rated. It's the only decent explanation.

Do you honestly think the SRT-8 or the CTS-V are direct competition for the GTO? I do not think the GTO belongs in the comparisom. It's not a 4 door car, it's not in the same price class, it doesn't belong in the same article. So the magazine was out of line for making this a topic for discussion.

My subjective comments were a direct response to previous subjective comments. While this is a GTO forum, it is on the Internet where many other people outside your community can see it.

Egad Orbit Orange, you sound like a little kid that's just been beaten at his own game. Why post childish little insults?

We bought a 2004 GTO, and we race it at S.I.R., it's gone 14.6 @ 99mph. I'm sure we can bring the time down a bit, and it isn't a "corrected" time, but the car is 100% dead stock.

The 300SRT8 is bloody impressive. It's a FOUR DOOR, and it outran a 2005 GTO. I would be impressed, not full of schoolyard insults. Congrats to the Mopar camp.

I've lurked here for a week, and I've got to say, who wants to post in what is turning into a "kiddie" forum of flaming and name calling?
Keep to facts, keep your insults to yourself, and we can run them again at a later date, hopefully with some improvements!

I hate when the "other" guys make excuses after excuses. Don't turn GTO owners into a group known as "excuse makers" or crybabies. Other forums will link to this for sure.
Just my .02

Originally posted by sublime@Dec 30 2004, 03:39 PM
While I do not like the magazine, it is the only set of numbers we have. I do not think the SRT-8 used was a ringer and I believe the 6.1 hemi is under rated. It's the only decent explanation.

Do you honestly think the SRT-8 or the CTS-V are direct competition for the GTO? I do not think the GTO belongs in the comparisom. It's not a 4 door car, it's not in the same price class, it doesn't belong in the same article. So the magazine was out of line for making this a topic for discussion.
That I will agree with, the CTSV is more competition with BMW/Mercedes.
There is some grey area in where Chrysler is going, they are luxery but not Mercedes level, if you were to compare them to a GM division I would say they were buick, luxery but not to the level of Cadillac or MB.

Why MT threw in a GTO is beyond me, it really doesn't fit in with the other cars.

This is DC's competition for the GTO.. It's a 4 door, but it's aimed at a similar market...
http://www.techspider.com/charger/charger1024.jpg

Which is interesting to see, I'v seen some charger spy shots and I am really disappointed in the 4door only option. From what I have seen the GTO market is unlikely to cross shop sedans. Most people cross shop it with the Mustang GT, the M3, and other 2 door sport coupes.

With a 4 door, Dodge is really putting the Charger somewhere else, Bonneville territory maybe ( I dont know the demensions of the charger, but I assume its rather large), Maybe a competitor to the upcomming RWD Impala or other Zeta car. I really don't see many people cross shoping the two though, simply because they are different cars. If they made it a 2door though I could see many people going back and forth.

unfortunately I don't think DC will be gracing us with a 2 door version... For a four door it's a nice looking and actually sporty looking car. It will be interesting to watch the sales #'s. I hope they have a good marketing plan, they are going to need it...

If there had been internet message boards in the 60s, I imagine this thread would look very similar. :friday:

With the help of MB, DC has really turned around and has made great strides in terms of quality.
I was really looking forward to the Charger, but I would not even consider it as a 4dr. They already have the 300C and Magnum, how would the Charger be any different?
Perhaps because there are sucessful import 4drs like the Evo and STi they plan to compete with them?

You may see and SRT-8 or two at the strip. But that is not what the SRT-8 is about. It's about luxury with performance. A 4000+ lb. sedan that can perform as good or better than your two-door 'sports / muscle' car is impressive. You can't deny that. This really is not a fair fight. The SRT-8 is a different class of car. When the Charger comes out, that is gonna be a better comparison. Even then, it's still a four door, vs. a two door. What we can say is the 300C outsells the GTO significantly. You can't argure with that number.

Not trying to add to the flame war, but I would recommend Sublime and some of the other Mopar fans check out the Top Gear comparison of the 300C vs. the Vauxhall Monaro/GTO. It didn't fare so well.
The SRT-8 may be all those great things written about it, however, just like the mustang, I'll be seeing them everywhere. Or worse, their clones.
Yes, I have driven the Magnum and the 300C. Did this to appease the wife before getting what I wanted all along. My wife didn't like the Magnum's dash. Too much cheap plastic. I didn't mind that, but I wasn't comfortable with the seats in either car. Too narrow. Loads of room yes, especially in back. A place I never sit. 4 doors? I only use 1 at a time. Lots of trunk space? Thats what the wife's 3.5 RL is for. And is it just my twisted mind, or does the Charger look like a buck toothed oriental guy?

As I have been trying to say... These cars do not belong in directo comparisom. Completely different rides. The 300C and SRT-8 will outsell the comparable GTO's, guaranteed.

True, but at a maximum of 12K a year the GTO will never be a big seller. Since when did production numbers mean a car is better than another. The best cars in the world arn't mass produced.

GTO's sit on the lots around here... The dealers can't get enough 300C's... That's the difference. We aren't talking production, we are talking demand.

Lol, Since when did demand numbers mean a car is better than another.

Well, you and I as individuals may think that one car is better than another. Performance numbers may suggest one car performs better than another, but that does not take everything in to account either. Most people these days do not want performance orientated car that does nothing but go fast. The masses will decide what is the better all around car.

Lol the masses think the Toyota Accord and Honda Civic are the best cars around, despite performance. Demand and production numbers mean little to what is the "best" car, the fact is that the Best car is totally up to your opinion and what your needing a car for. For us here wanting a large two door sports coupe, the GTO is the best car out there. Car and Driver thought the Mustang was a better car despite the GTO's better performance because of a "gotta have it factor" that favored the Mustang by 1 point. It's really simply arguing opinions which is well...redundant because no opinion is any better or more correct than another.

:friday:

Yes, it's all about what you like and what you want... It is your money and you can spend it however you see fit. The only reason I took such offense and came in here swingin' a bat was the slowpar comments. The newest Mopar product I have is a '99 RAM Cummins Diesel powered truck. Otherwise I own a lot of old mopars that are nice and low tech... Not many production cars could touch them in a quarter mile... Anyway... I'll let you guys get back to your fun..

Thats Toyota Corolla. Honda makes the Accord. Odd, for many years those great selling cars from Honda were described by the automotive press as bland.
This may be a strange question, but what are the fuel economy figures on the SRT-8? Top speed?

I said it before and I'll say it again the weight (without the driver and gas) of the 300 would need 425hp to the rear wheel to make those times. So if "we" did get beat it was by a Fudged car and that makes me laugh. :hysterical:

That is the level that DC has to stoop to to get into the performance luxury market. That is a d@mn shame.

As for looks you can say what you want but the new DC line up looks like total EDITED WORD to me.

The ram looks like EDITED WORD, the 300/magnum look like EDITED WORD, crossfire looks like EDITED WORD, do not even get me started on the durango and the dakota...what the snickywinks was DC thinking.

Ok the Viper looks ok...but that is about the only DC vehicle I would buy.

AND YES! I have driven ALL the above mentiond cars, as well as owned a 2000 Dakota R/T and Durango STL+

I was not at all impressed with either the 300C or the Magnum R/T


This post was edited on 12/30/2004 at 8:25pm to be less offensive to our members.

And lastly please do not bash on the GTO on this GTO site again. Constructive critism is ok but no bashing!

REMEMBER THIS IS A GTO FORUM!!

IT IS REALLY REALLY BIG UP TOP, LOOK!!!!

IT SAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.newagegto.com/forum/style_images/NewAgeGT-036/GTO1.jpg

I happen to like the new truck, the 300c, the magnum and even the crossfire... DC has it going on. And I don't think the SRT-8 in the test was a ringer. We will see when they come out.

Woot! Internet fight! *grabs popcorn and takes a seat in the corner of the ring* GO GTO GUYS!

Uh, just to chime in here. I agree, the SRT-8 and even the regular 300C has a COMPLETELY different market. Even the CTS-V has a completely different market. Why they compared those three vehicles is confusing to me? Now the Mustang GT vs GTO vs 350Z perhaps I can see a comparison test making perfect sence.

In real world comparisons on the street, i'd be willing to bet a typical GTO driver is going to be more skilled at pushing his vehicle to the limit than any old fart in a 300C. And with only 5000 SRT-8's being made per year (which will likely sell for $50k each if not more) it'd be shocking to run into one on the street as it is. Heck, I NEVER see GTO's on the road, or at dealerships for that matter. (I take that back, their was one left at the dealership two weeks ago when I looked.) The 'problem' with the GTO is the fact it is outpriced for its target market. IE: People who would by Mustang GT's and such. Now cost doesnt shy me away from the car since I know it is built better and much higher quality than the Mustang, plus it isnt so 'cheep' looking from every angle. (Compared to the Mustang)

I wouldn't be so sure as to the above statement though. Is Daimler Chrysler not in theory "owned" by Germans? I still call Chrysler/Dodge American companies but I'm not so sure I should anymore. I'll agree with the last part of your statement about being proud of the great numbers posted.
Sure, but the LX’s are still built in the Americas (Hemi in Mexico, the car at Brampton). You shouldn’t talk, considering the roots of your GTO.

The "bland looks" statement is purely your opinion. I happen to find it good looking. It's subjective. So if I were to say the 300C looks like a big fat ugly brick had mated with toaster that would be my opinion only and not fact as you seem to imply. No I have not personally driven a 300C but MANY on the site have. And I'll make comments if I d@mn well please seeing this is a GTO board and not a Slowpar board.

I understand, and I never attackedyou or anyone, or even the car. I see the same thing even within the Mopar community. The new Charger has been the cause of much debate, with most Mopar enthusiasts hating it. I happen to like “big fat ugly bricks mated with toasters,” but that’s just me. You like “warmed over Gran AM’s,” that’s you. Your Grand Prix is ugly. You don’t think so. The 300C is ugly, so you think - I don’t. See?? It’s all subjective.


Low 5's huh?

I find those numbers suspect given the weight. Just as I find the SRT-8's 0-60 and quarter times suspect too.

I'd love to line up against the an overweight brick of a 300C but the only ones I see around here seem to be driven by 60 plus year old WOMEN. I doubt I'll get a race.

Sure, C&D got 5.3 0-60 back when they tested. But then again, what do they know? They’ve just been testing cars for years and years.

Now lastly, I know I'm being harsh and over critical and "jerkish". But even when you come waving a white flag I still see jabs in your post. I didn't go over to your 300C/Magnum site badmouthing your car. I'm doing it here in an environment where like minded GTO owners can commisurate with one another. If we want to debate these numbers it is OUR RIGHT on this site and if you don't like it leave and stay at your own site and badmouth the GTO all you want. Frankly I don't care as I'll never be there to read the posts anyway. And never once did I personally call the 300C SRT-8 a "bad" car. I have called some of MT's testing numbers suspect. If they weren't why wouldn't these 300C lovers start crawling out of the woodwork all of the sudden? Have I touched on something DC wants to cover up to push their bloated land yacht?

And I never once called your car a “bad car,” and if you actually read my post, you’ll see I said it was a “great car.” And really, there was no “jabs” in my post, seriously.

“Crawling out of the woodwork??” We will defend our cars, just as you would yours. Then again, most 300C owners aren’t in the market for a 2 door coupe, so it apples to oranges that just happen to have the same performance numbers. MT comparing the GTO to the others seems odd - the SRT-8 and CTS-V would have been fair enough.

All right, I'm done ranting. If you'd like to debate the numbers fine. I don't wan't a flame war either. I'm glad you love your 300C, but just because a few GTO owners doubt the times of the not yet released SRT-8 doesn't mean every 300C owner has to argue the point. Makes you wonder if they are a little insecure. Feel free to continue discussing, just remember your Administrator title of your 300C/Magnum site doesn't grant you special rights or privileges over here. If that makes me a jerk then alright, I really am a pretty mellow fella at heart. But my passion for the GTO often overtakes reason. Glad you are equally as passionate about your 300C. ...And I love the 300, so we have something in common. :P

Anyway, thanks for the “welcome,” and maybe I’ll check back so we can chat some more. ;)

Hey everyone for what its worth I wouldnt worry about the V's having better times. GMs been underating the horsies in those engines since they made them cause they dont want vette Z06 drivers having caniption fits that a caddy has more power than there pure sports car. I do know for a fact that the V's from last year were dynoing out at like 435-450. And there were also packages available that no one talked about that were worth 50hp each give or take. Thats kinda why GM didnt jump on raising the bar when BMW came out with the V-10 for the M5. But who cares the goat is great, it'll eat the chrystler on street and as long as it still beats up on mustangs everyone will be happy. :P

Actually whats strange is that they were supposed to do a compo on the goat and the rustang. GM sent that around in like early december. Just strange that it never happened cause it was supposed to coincide with the arrival of the 05s and the new kits for the 04s. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :pain:

Originally posted by vncj96@Dec 30 2004, 12:10 PM
Hey
Beg to differ the rear end is directly from AMG so are half shafts and other various drivetrain components you can find this out from Chrylser themselves
What are you talking about? The suspension geometry, the automatic transmission, and some components from the steering column of the 300 are from the last generation E-Class. Absolutely nothing is shared with AMG.

Originally posted by REDGLOW360@Dec 30 2004, 10:47 PM
I do know for a fact that the V's from last year were dynoing out at like 435-450.
Redglow and others,

This isn't meant as a flame but the CTS-V dynos at 310 - 340 rwhp. Allowing for parasitic loss it's right at its 400hp claim. The CTS-V's quicker times are mostly due to 3.73 rear end gears and a rather steep first gear. You need a lot of gear to get 4,000 lbs. rolling, trust me.

As far as the 300, it's a great car. The did an excellent job and I have driven both the V6 and Hemi models. While impressive they're no CTS-V. We all know who the target demographic is for each of the 300's and they are definitely hitting them. I see people from 25 to 75 yrs. old driving these cars. Usually the younger ones are blasting the bass and have put 20 inch wheels on with neon and a windshield banner reading "king of bling". And that's great. Their car their choice. The 75 yr. olds have curb feelers and an AARP bumper sticker on their V6's. And that's great too.

The GTO will NEVER sell as well as 300's and Mustang GT's. There are no cheap V6's for fleet vehicles, rentals and people who don't want or can't afford a V8. The CTS sells etremely well but the V is severly limited by it's 6 speed only offering.

But here's what everyone like sublime keeps missing. WE like the fact that there are no cheapy GTO's, we also like the fact that it has limited appeal and I definitely like knowing that the price of owning a V is that you have to shift your own gears. I don't want to see a V or GTO on every corner in my town. Exclusivity has it's pain and it's pleasure.

I stopped defending the GTO's styling a long time ago. About the time I stopped trying to explain why I need a 400hp sedan. If you don't get it, there is a reason. YOU'RE NOT A CAR GUY AND YOU'RE DEFINITELY NOT A GM CAR NUT LIKE ME AND OTHERS. And that's cool. Love your Mopar or love your Ford they're just not for me.

I understand and that is exactly why I have classic muscle cars myself... You don't see many of them on the road :)

But... The issue that made me post was the bashing of mopars by using the term slopar etc. That is what made me defensive.

Originally posted by sublime@Dec 31 2004, 12:03 AM
I understand and that is exactly why I have classic muscle cars myself... You don't see many of them on the road :)

But... The issue that made me post was the bashing of mopars by using the term slopar etc. That is what made me defensive.
sublime,

I love all old cars. Especially muscle cars. Car guys are a crazy bunch and most conversations only get heated when someone crosses the line. GTO guys are sensitive about the styling comments. Mention wheel hop or Bat Mobile around us CTS-V guys and it's on. The slopar comment comes from Chrysler's years of pretending to be in the pony car business. While GM and Ford slugged it out with old fashion V8's, Chrysler threw in turbo charged 4's and 6's. Hardly the stuff of pony cars.

Now the new Chrysler is getting back to basics. They revive the Hemi and start producing cars and trucks that people give a **** about. Chrysler and their fans have a lot to be excited about as it looks like they're headed in the right direction.

But please sublime don't ask me what I think of the new Charger. I want to keep this congenial. B)

Originally posted by TheJizzer@Dec 30 2004, 05:27 PM
As for looks you can say what you want but the new DC line up looks like total poopy to me.

The ram looks like poop, the 300/magnum look like poop, crossfire looks like poop, do not even get me started on the durango and the dakota...what the hell was DC thinking.

Ok the Viper looks ok...but that is about the only DC vehicle I would buy.


What an embarrasment a few kids are here.
"poopy"?
I'm not a jealous teen, I don't need to call other people or other people who own other makes of cars names.

The Viper is a better looking car than my GTO, but it also costs how much more? It's a compromise car, it's never going to be a primary car in a family with kids.

What's with the maturity level of a few here? The mods should toss the "poopy" stuff where it belongs. It's an embarassment to the other posters.

Sublime- what do you own? Street cars, race cars, or ?

What an embarrasment a few kids are here.
"poopy"?
I'm not a jealous teen, I don't need to call other people or other people who own other makes of cars names.


Discuss the thread. Trolls will be banned.

Originally posted by NHRAracer+Dec 30 2004, 07:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NHRAracer @ Dec 30 2004, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheJizzer@Dec 30 2004, 05:27 PM
As for looks you can say what you want but the new DC line up looks like total poopy to me.

The ram looks like poop, the 300/magnum look like poop, crossfire looks like poop, do not even get me started on the durango and the dakota...what the hell was DC thinking.

Ok the Viper looks ok...but that is about the only DC vehicle I would buy.


What an embarrasment a few kids are here.
"poopy"?
I'm not a jealous teen, I don't need to call other people or other people who own other makes of cars names.

The Viper is a better looking car than my GTO, but it also costs how much more? It's a compromise car, it's never going to be a primary car in a family with kids.

What's with the maturity level of a few here? The mods should toss the "poopy" stuff where it belongs. It's an embarassment to the other posters.

Sublime- what do you own? Street cars, race cars, or ? [/b][/quote]
I am the MODS! and "EDITED WORD"! EDITED WORD! EDITED WORD! was the word I used cause I felt like it. I am no teen. I am sick of the lurking -
Me and a few others where just trying to have a simple conversation about how the overweight Toaster-brick mobile got the numbers it did with the claimed HP/T and gearing - and along come the people who feel the need to bring the flamethrowers.
So I stated how I felt about the new DC line up and I personally think it is EDITED WORD! .

No one in the initial posts said anything bad about any cars other than the fact that either the magazine or the car company was sandbagging! and I will state again that the lurking flamethrowers came in.

If you have a better more mature word that you would rather see, please, by all means PM me with it.

HOLD THE PROVERBIAL PHONE!!!

You know what. We (as the NAGTO) went down this road a little while back. And it got bad. Posts where down and people where discusted. We added a few Globals cleaned the place up and the posts took off. Am I wrong? I think we are heading in that direction again.

It may be time to revisit that................................... :type: ; follow me?

Originally posted by Foster'sguy@Dec 30 2004, 04:37 PM
Not trying to add to the flame war, but I would recommend Sublime and some of the other Mopar fans check out the Top Gear comparison of the 300C vs. the Vauxhall Monaro/GTO. It didn't fare so well.

<_< That Top Gear comparison was a joke. They tested the cars on sand. Basically they were throwing the 300C around like it was a "sports" car or something. In the sense of handling, yes they gave it bad reviews. However for the city and highway (which I might add where 99.8567% of the owners will be driving it) they said it was great.

As far as the 300C SRT-8 goes, it has curred most of the performance short comings many have listed for the regular 5.7L 300C.

But... The issue that made me post was the bashing of mopars by using the term slopar etc. That is what made me defensive.



Jeesh. A little sensitive huh?

I call Mustangs, Rustangs, Crustangs.

I call Hondas/Toyotas/Nissans Riceburners

I call BMW's/Mercedes/Audis Krautmobiles

Whoopity dooo! I'm a regular Osama Bin Laden. This is a GTO site, do you honestly believe we are going to not say these things? It's called bonding and we do it as a fraternal type thing.

Now back to the topic.............

Sure, C&D got 5.3 0-60 back when they tested. But then again, what do they know? They’ve just been testing cars for years and years.

Yep and I'll use an example of our beloved GTO. You probably know this one. Car and Whiner lines up a test between a Ferrari GTO and the new Tempest GTO. The Ferrari doesn't show. The GTO is a RINGER. A heavily leaned on 421 instead of the stock 389. It proceeds to run an incredible 0-100-0 time and an icredibly quick 0-60 time. It was rigged! No stock GTO could have pulled those times and C&D declares the Pontiac the winner. So yes they have a 40 year history of fudging the numbers and bending the truth.

You shouldn’t talk, considering the roots of your GTO.


This one has been debated to death and this will be the last that I mention of it here.

General Motors is a majority owned AMERICAN based company. Profits come back to AMERICA regardless of where the branch owned by GM operates, Ex) Holden, Saab, Opel, GM Canada etc.
Yes the lines are blurry. But GM is still an AMERICAN company. I can't be so sure that can be said of DC. DC is owned by a majority GERMAN company. Profits will trickle back to GERMANY. Even though the DC vehicle might be built here. Nissan builds cars here but they aren't an American company. The lines are blurry yes. I'll not debate this anymore as it has already been overdone here.


We will defend our cars, just as you would yours.

That's fine. But here is the deal. YOU CAME HERE, not vice versa. If I would have trolled up at the 300C/Magnum site I could totally expect this. But here all of a sudden several Mopar owners show up trolling and DEMAND that we can't speak our mind? Get real.

I still have not heard one solid fact that will change my mind. I'd love to see some dynos on the Hemi in the SRT-8 that would show the 425 HP is underated. I'd love to see some actual gear ratios of the 5 speed auto. I'd love to hear anything that could back up these claims. I am not going to believe it until there is some real proof. One test in one magazine is NOT going to do it for me. And I am extremely confident that this will be proven in a few months.

Bring me some proof Mopar people. My mind can be changed if presented with facts. I'm just not buying the old "Yeah this Hemi is underated". And if DC leaned on the SRT-8 with an aggresive tune or hidden go-fast parts how could MT figure it out. They can't even figure out how many people a GTO can seat with 2+2 seating.

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Dec 30 2004, 02:43 PM

A stock C (Hemi model) can run mid to low 5's given the right conditions, but I've also seen owners reporting numbers as high as 6.4 seconds, and can't get it any faster. So given that a 300C with the 5.7L can do mid 5's, the 300C SRT-8 numbers don't seem suspect at all.

Low 5's huh? :bs:

I find those numbers suspect given the weight. Just as I find the SRT-8's 0-60 and quarter times suspect too.

C & D had the 5.7L 300 @ 5.3 0-60 and 13.9 1/4 mile.

......... and Motor Trend had 2 times of 5.8 and 6.2!!!! and quarter times of 14.3 and 14.5!!!

The car mags don't tell the story and a d@mned road test never won a race at the track. There isn't a bone stock 300C out there that I wouldn't run in my bone stock 04 GTO. Sure it would be close but it gives up about 400 plus pounds with lesser gearing.

One test doesn't tell the story. Look at all the tests find an average and you get a better feel for the numbers. What other mags even got close to that claimed 5.3 for the 300C?? And as for low 13's I'd love to see some timeslips. And we're talking stock here too, not some, "Well he's got and exhaust and intake and a chip but he's basicall stock" cr@p.

I would not back down from a stoplight race from any true stock 300C (5.7 Hemi). Could I get beat, sure its possible. Would I ..... I doubt it. Like I said before though. All 300's I see are driven by Senior Citizens. I doubt I'll get a chance to prove it.

Ven- I first thought the same thing, but having driven the 300C, I would have to agree with them that the handling is boat like. The SRT-8 may be an upgrade, but how many do you think they will actually sell versus the pretenders who pimp out their rides to look like the SRT?? There is another test of the Vauxhall on a track where one of my favorite quotes is " It does what a musclecar should, etc." Or did you miss that? I do agree that the SRT-8 should have been compared to the Caddy but not the GTO. Distinctly different types of cars.

Originally posted by Foster'sguy@Dec 30 2004, 09:14 PM
Ven- I first thought the same thing, but having driven the 300C, I would have to agree with them that the handling is boat like. The SRT-8 may be an upgrade, but how many do you think they will actually sell versus the pretenders who pimp out their rides to look like the SRT?? There is another test of the Vauxhall on a track where one of my favorite quotes is " It does what a musclecar should, etc." Or did you miss that? I do agree that the SRT-8 should have been compared to the Caddy but not the GTO. Distinctly different types of cars.
:rolleyes:

You keep talking about the handling of a 300C. I don't ever remember Chrysler marketing the car as some road-course king or it tearing up the drag strip. I do however notice them driving it around the city where most people (check aforementioned percentage) will be driving it. So do you think since you drove a 300C you know how a 300C SRT-8 handles? -_-

Please do not bring up sale numbers. Especially not if the other car you'd compare it to is the GTO. I doubt Chrysler will have trouble selling their 300C SRT-8s seing as their other 300 models have been an immense sucess (the Hemi version makes 50% of the sales). Chrysler themselves have said the 6.1L will be a low production trim level for the 300.

Obviously you missed the point. The 300c is marketed as a luxurious car with a high performance engine,is it not? The roads I drive contain curves as well as straightaways. And since I drive over 450 miles a week in my GTO, I can attest that the ride and handling are excellent. The 300C has a softer suspension than the GTO, yes or no? The SRT is an upgrade from that, yes? Have YOU driven the SRT and the 05 GTO? If so, please indulge us with your unbiased opinion.
Here in South Florida I see lots of 300/ 300C's every day, driven by a wide variety of people. Seems to be the modern pimp mobile. Not one has offered a challenge of any type. Why? Because for all the hype about it having a HEMI, most 300C owners will never fully explore the performance potential of their engine.
The statement about the sales numbers vs. the GTO is ignorant on your part. I asked how many SRT's you thought they would sell vs. the 300C, not the GTO. Now you say that Chrysler says it will be a low production model. Sort of like GM announcing they would be producing under 20,000 04 GTO's. I am happy with the lower volume of the GTO. Means I won't be seeing so many of me coming down the road every 15 minutes.

Originally posted by Oedipus1108+Dec 30 2004, 06:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Oedipus1108 @ Dec 30 2004, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-vncj96@Dec 30 2004, 12:10 PM
Hey
Beg to differ the rear end is directly from AMG so are half shafts and other various drivetrain components you can find this out from Chrylser themselves
What are you talking about? The suspension geometry, the automatic transmission, and some components from the steering column of the 300 are from the last generation E-Class. Absolutely nothing is shared with AMG.[/b][/quote]
I could be wrong, but I think his point was to say borrowed from MB, not AMG which modifies MB.

Jeesh. A little sensitive huh?
Funny it's YOU saying that. So much for me trying to have a mature conversation...

I can provide you with Dyno results (of a stock 5.7L C), but no reason to, I'm not going to change your mind (nor was it the reason I registered here). Ban me if you'd like, you're a mod... But than again, I wouldn't be that much of jerk to do the same to someone who, at my site wanted to have a mature debate about numbers. Sure, we wouldn' love it if a GTO owner came and posted negative stuff about a 300 on our board, but then again, I didn't do that, you assumed I wanted a fight, which was not the case. If you read my posts, I never once said a bad thing about the GTO, aside from my styling comment - which we both know is subjective.

All 300's I see are driven by Senior Citizens.
Most of the members are under 40 at my forum... We even have some in their 20's. :blink:

I'm 35 if that matters, but I'm sure you consider that an old fart, because I'm a fan of a RWD Chrysler! Can you believe that!? Someone under 65 likes a RWD Chrysler with a Hemi V8! :rolleyes:

I can provide you with Dyno results (of a stock 5.7L C), but no reason to

Why not? I'm asking for proof and if you have it why not post it?

Most of the members are under 40 at my forum... We even have some in their 20's.

Now just think about that for a second. How many Seniors actually surf the internet? Most of them can't even figure out how to turn the computer on. The older set is not going to register on any site as they don't care.

Sure, we wouldn' love it if a GTO owner came and posted negative stuff about a 300 on our board, but then again, I didn't do that

Here's where I beg to differ. From your first post. Whether this was intentional or not, I don't know but we here are sick and tired of this SUBJECTIVE comment.

aside from it's bland looks Other than that it was reasonable. And has any Mod issued a warning or given to you a ban yet, NO. That can't be said of a couple of other posters in this thread.

I want to hear hard factual numbers. Yes I can be convinced if given REAL TRUE FACTS. Let me hear it, I'm all ears.

I'm 35 if that matters, but I'm sure you consider that an old fart

Yes, yes you are. I'm 34 and anyone older than me is truly an old fart. ;) Now see I've got some humor in me. I just want some real info. to back up MT's claim. And if it can't be provided I just can't believe it. What if Columbus would have just assumed the world was flat because that was what everyone said? So let's get back to the topic. Notice nowhere in this post is there anything remotely negative about the 300C or SRT-8. I am questioning Motor Trends numbers and if DC sent them a ringer. Feel free to keep posting. But give us something to work with other than one test, and if you don't just say so and we'll wait until it and the 05 GTO hit the streets and figure it out. B)

It's late, I'm tired, I'm off to sleepy. When it all comes down to it they are just cars (albeit cherished ones). I can't get too worked up when over 100,000 lives have been lost in the last few days. Bye for now. :mellow:

WOW!! Aggression, 90 post in 2 days!!!!

I like dodge vehicles, of course like a fast a Cadillac.

Both these vehicles may be better on the inside (you pay for it), however if driven correctly there is no way the GTO would be slower, probably <1% of us has driven a 05 GTO but Pontiac has advertised 4.6,4.7 0-60, they will never exaggerate factory numbers, they'll get in too much trouble.

Again as a 04 GTO owner we say (for example) ours is better then a 03 Cobra due to the feel and ride, even though the 03 Cobra may be faster. The comfort may be better in the 300C and the CTS-V, but performance and braking results should belong to the 05 GTO. Something was up with test results.

*MOD MODE*

We killed the Asylum for the very reason that this thread is beginning to head in. Remember people, let's keep it cool or Gai will start chopping threads.

*Sharpens sword*

Time to kill the thread...

Originally posted by CSiJason@Dec 31 2004, 06:23 AM
Time to kill the thread...
Agreed

Don't you guys know that you can't compare test numbers from one mag to another, since they use different test surfaces, are done at differing ambient temperatures, etc.?
The GM test numbers, by the way, are real and can be repeated, or they would not appear in the advertising.

Tires are the biggest determinant when it comes to max lateral Gs or slalom times and GTO is outgunned in this comparison. Wider tires and summer-only performance tires do make a difference.

I look at this magazine comparison with an eye to performance/dollar, where the GTO shines brightly. I mean , I love the CTS-V (I have a V6 CTS now), but for $52k?

Originally posted by Foster'sguy@Dec 30 2004, 11:54 PM
The 300c is marketed as a luxurious car with a high performance engine,is it not? The roads I drive contain curves as well as straightaways. And since I drive over 450 miles a week in my GTO, I can attest that the ride and handling are excellent. The 300C has a softer suspension than the GTO, yes or no? The SRT is an upgrade from that, yes? Have YOU driven the SRT and the 05 GTO? If so, please indulge us with your unbiased opinion.
Here in South Florida I see lots of 300/ 300C's every day, driven by a wide variety of people. Seems to be the modern pimp mobile. Not one has offered a challenge of any type. Why? Because for all the hype about it having a HEMI, most 300C owners will never fully explore the performance potential of their engine.
The statement about the sales numbers vs. the GTO is ignorant on your part. I asked how many SRT's you thought they would sell vs. the 300C, not the GTO. Now you say that Chrysler says it will be a low production model. Sort of like GM announcing they would be producing under 20,000 04 GTO's. I am happy with the lower volume of the GTO. Means I won't be seeing so many of me coming down the road every 15 minutes.
Yes the 300C is marketed as a luxury car with a performance engine (as are many other cars). Does that mean owners should toss their cars around or have stop light drag races :rolleyes:

Of course the ride is softer in the 300C than the GTO. People aren't buying the 300C for handling, so for you to keep bringing up the handling of the 300C is pointless.

I didn't know I had to drive the SRT to realize that it's an upgrade over the regular 300C.


Please do not try to pass the ignorance card to me. <_< You asked how the 6.1L would sell compared to the 5.7L That question is self explanatory. If both 5.7L and 6.1L were to fly off the lots (as the 5.7L already has) and the 6.1L will be in a lower volume, then logic would say the 5.7L will be selling more.

Here's some numbers from 300C:

Baseline Dyno Runs.
1) 286.28 HP 327.51 TQ
2) 286.80 HP 327.65 TQ
3) 287.43 HP 323.92 TQ (opened air box top left cracked open sitting on top)

And the 1/4 mile in 14.320 @ 97.23.

Okay, so that's the 5.7L Hemi... I don't have numbers to back MT's claim on the SRT-8, because no one has one to get real world numbers! Wait a few months, and then...

But ponder this. The 6.1L Hemi has rated at 425 HP, and 420 Ft/Lbs TQ. That's a alot more then the 5.7L, so expect a good second or more shaved off those times.

The picture of the red Charger is somewhat doctored: the car is lowered by 1-1 1/2 inches, has different rocker moldings and has Crager wheels/bigger tires.

It looks all wrong to me with that "fast" roof on that upright body architecture, but, then again, that's just my opinion. As a GM loyalist, I thank Dodge for making GM's sedan response much easier to be a winner.

Originally posted by rlsedition@Dec 31 2004, 12:13 PM
The picture of the red Charger is somewhat doctored: the car is lowered by 1-1 1/2 inches, has different rocker moldings and has Crager wheels/bigger tires.

It looks all wrong to me with that "fast" roof on that upright body architecture, but, then again, that's just my opinion. As a GM loyalist, I thank Dodge for making GM's sedan response much easier to be a winner.
The Charger picture in MT is the real car. It's a pre-production model of the consumer version, that's all.

Actually that picture is somewhat modified. The guy has a good eye or he saw the post where I got the original. :)

Here's some numbers from 300C:
CODE
Baseline Dyno Runs.
1) 286.28 HP 327.51 TQ
2) 286.80 HP 327.65 TQ
3) 287.43 HP 323.92 TQ (opened air box top left cracked open sitting on top)

And the 1/4 mile in 14.320 @ 97.23.
Okay, so that's the 5.7L Hemi... I don't have numbers to back MT's claim on the SRT-8, because no one has one to get real world numbers! Wait a few months, and then...
But ponder this. The 6.1L Hemi has rated at 425 HP, and 420 Ft/Lbs TQ. That's a alot more then the 5.7L, so expect a good second or more shaved off those times.



Thank you very much. I asked for some numbers and you have delivered. I appreciate that.

Now you'll have to humor me again for a second. What is the torque rating of the 5.7 Hemi in the 300C? Is it 380, 385 or 390. I mean the manufacturers rating also. What is quoted by DC?

An increase from 340 to 425 HP (85 HP) is a hefty gain.
An increase from 380 to 420 TQ (40 TQ) is a modest gain

I'm not good with the numbers so I couldn't say if that would be enough to shave a whole second off quarter mile times. It's possible I'm sure.

Now the 05 GTO

An increase from 350 HP to 400 HP (50 HP) is a sizeable gain
An increase from 365 TQ to 395 TQ (30 TQ) is a modest gain

Not enough to shave a whole second off quarter times. And by Pontiac's figures good enough to drop the A4 from 5.4 0-60 in 04 to 4.6 0-60 in 05 (0.8 sec) The M6 from 5.3 0-60 in 04 to 4.7 in 05 (0.6 sec)

I have seen the number by Car and Driver of 5.3 0-60, but have seen it nowhere close to that in any other mags. (I know mag racing again) I see a lot of 5.8 and 5.9's.

So SRT-8's 85hp/40tq increase has made the 0-60 times go from 5.8 in the 300C to 4.9 in the SRT-8. A difference of 0.9 sec (85 HP worth)

'05 GTO's 50 HP/30TQ increase has made the 0-60 times go from 5.3 in the 04 M6 to 5.0 in the 05 M6. A difference of ONLY 0.3 sec (out of 50 HP worth)

THIS DOES NOT STACK UP!

Now either DC sent MT a ringer, MT's testers can't drive (a very likely answer to this question) or the 05 GTO MT tested was a weak pre-production mule. If 85 HP nets approx. 0.9 sec in the 0-60 time (rougly 0.1 sec per 10 horsepower) then GTO's 50 HP should net around 0.5 sec in 0-60 time but only gets 0.3. I know this is splitting hairs but when you start to get around these levels of power 0.1 of a second is a lot.

I am willing at this time to entertain the notion that the SRT-8 COULD run these times. At the same time though the 05 GTO's times I cannot accept. Chalk it up to driver skill, tires, pre-production test mule whatever. So as you and I said I think we will have to wait it out. I still don't believe it but I won't make a final judgement yet.

Again thanks for the data. If you could confirm the TQ numbers for me I'd be appreciative. We might have gotten off on the wrong foot but it's not past making ammends. If it is possible, do you or someone on your site have the gear ratios of all 5 speeds in the automatic? This could go a long way towards explaining these gains or refuting them, (at least in my book)

If you'd like some data or numbers feel free to ask as I feel obligated to return the favor. :)

Ven, I swear you must be in politics. Getting a straight answer out of you is nearly impossible. The question was, "Have YOU driven the SRT and the 05 GTO?" Have you? Most likely not.
You don't seem to care about the handling. Are you the type of person who buys a Ferrari and only uses it as a grocery getter? If I puchase a vehicle described as a high performance car, you can bet the ranch I'm going to explore its limits. I do not engage in stop light drag racing, nor do I endorse it. I prefer the GT aspect of my car. If I'm on the turnpike and the traffic permits, I will play. I enjoy the ability to make quick lane changes without getting sea sick.
With your apparent knowledge of Chrysler's production numbers, what do you project the figures to be for the SRT?
Lets say you have just spent around $43,000 on your new SRT and you stop at a traffic light, only to have some guy in a tarted up 300C with spinners and neon pull up next to you. Still feel special? Well, at least you can out run him. Or maybe you can trick him into a high speed curve so you can watch him scrub off some speed with his door handles. Either way, you win. Until you get to the mall, where you will find a couple hundred clones of your car in the parking lot.
I do apologize. I was rambling.

Ask and you shall receive: :)

390 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm for the 300C with the 5.7L Hemi

--------------------------------------------------------------

For the 5-Speed in the "regular" 300C:

1st - 3.59
2nd - 2.19
3rd - 1.41
4th - 1.00
5th - 0.83
Reverse - 3.17
Final Drive - 2.82
Overall Top Gear - 2.34

And for the SRT-8: (W5A580 FIVE-SPEED AUTOMATIC)

1st - 3.59
2nd - 2.19
3rd - 1.41
4th - 1.00
5th - 0.83
Reverse - 3.17
Final Drive - 3.06
Overall Top Gear - 2.54

--------------------------------------------------------------

On a side note, it's not possible to have driven both, as the SRT-8 isn't out (for the public) yet.

Originally posted by sublime@Dec 31 2004, 01:56 PM
Actually that picture is somewhat modified. The guy has a good eye or he saw the post where I got the original. :)
Wait, what picture are you talking about?

Originally posted by E8502@Dec 31 2004, 06:09 PM
And for the SRT-8: (W5A580 FIVE-SPEED AUTOMATIC)

1st - 3.59
2nd - 2.19
3rd - 1.41
4th - 1.00
5th - 0.83
Reverse - 3.17
Final Drive - 3.06
Overall Top Gear - 2.54[/CODE]

--------------------------------------------------------------

On a side note, it's not possible to have driven both, as the SRT-8 isn't out (for the public) yet.
Yet another suspect of the ORIGINAL DISCUSSION -- a vehicle that weights over 4300lbs (Driver and gas) with 425/425 and getting those times....I am telling you to achive those times, on pencil or not it would need near 500/500 - somthing just does not add up.

I sure hope that DC did not sandbag their numbers that bad.

Originally posted by Foster'sguy+Dec 31 2004, 04:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Foster'sguy @ Dec 31 2004, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ven, I swear you must be in politics. Getting a straight answer out of you is nearly impossible. The question was, "Have YOU driven the SRT and the 05 GTO?" Have you? Most likely not.[/b]

No, although I don't remember any part of my post being based off driving either one..

Originally posted by Foster'sguy@Dec 31 2004, 04:17 PM
You don't seem to care about the handling. Are you the type of person who buys a Ferrari and only uses it as a grocery getter? If I puchase a vehicle described as a high performance car, you can bet the ranch I'm going to explore its limits. I do not engage in stop light drag racing, nor do I endorse it. I prefer the GT aspect of my car. If I'm on the turnpike and the traffic permits, I will play. I enjoy the ability to make quick lane changes without getting sea sick.

And your point of bringing up a Ferrari is because? The 300C is a high powered luxury car. When buying a full sized car, handling isn't at the top of my list. I love when people keep bringing up handling when the car isn't marked as such. Do 7 series, A8, Acura RL, Deville owners buy their cars for handling? No. But they do want a nice large luxurious car and want some "ooompff" when they put their foot down.

You say you enjoy quick lane changes :rolleyes: I'm sure going from 1 lane to the next in a quickly fashion is possible with most cars on the road. For someone to get some feeling of "joy of handling" from that is laughable, but hey who am I to down on their "fun"? And I'm sure the only corners in the turnpikes around you are the gradual curved ones (you know, the way most turnpikes are)..

Originally posted by Foster'sguy@Dec 31 2004, 04:17 PM
Lets say you have just spent around $43,000 on your new SRT and you stop at a traffic light, only to have some guy in a tarted up 300C with spinners and neon pull up next to you. Still feel special? Well, at least you can out run him. Or maybe you can trick him into a high speed curve so you can watch him scrub off some speed with his door handles. Either way, you win. Until you get to the mall, where you will find a couple hundred clones of your car in the parking lot.

Let's say I had a SRT8. Why would someone in a 300C with spinners bother me? Does the SRT8 coming with spinners or something? :rolleyes: What other people do with their car is their business and it would have no effect on me, my car, and how I feel about my car. There are only a few visual differences other than wheels that set the 5.7L and 6.1L apart (which was Chrysler's intention).


<!--QuoteBegin-Foster'sguy@Dec 31 2004, 04:17 PM
I was rambling.[/quote]

I noticed. <_<

At what RPM's does the SRT-8 make its peak torque and horsepower? What is redline? I need to crunch some numbers for myself.

It's been proved numerous times since it's beginning that the LS1 was also under rated at 350hp.The true HP is close to 375 in standard form.When LS6 heads were swaped in it moved to 389.On anothr tread I noted that Motor Trend has offered the car of the year award in the Wall Street Journal for a price.Almost all automotive magazines are owned by conglomerates that aren't interrested in fact or truth.They exzist only for profit.Any automaker wishing to promote their vehicle can for a price.These are not journalists,they are salesman.Most of the investers are Japanese and German thus the always favorable reviews on these manufacturers.Chysler is now a German company.Nuf Said.Anyone who pays good money for auto mags are only buying propagada written by the promotion departments of these manufacturers.A collection of advertiments used as facts.Our USA manufacturers aren't allowed by law to do this.Primedia ownes both Motor Trend and Carand Driver,also Hotrod and many others.Save yourbreath and money,they don't care what you think!

re-god****-diculous. Worst times out of the 05 GTO EVER!?!

Obviously you have never driven the never quite finshed highways of south Florida.
As to your comments regarding the 7 series, A8, Acura RL , and the DeVille........
BMW's are advertised as ultimate driving machines,are they not?
Audi's are likewise not pushed as luxo boats, and have you seen the new RL? You know, the one with the "super handling all wheel drive"??
I'll give you the Caddy. You're spot on there.
How did " I enjoy the ability to make quick lane changes without getting sea sick. ", transform into " joys of handling"? Ever play dodge ball? Try driving I-95 in Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties, especially when the snowbirds come down.
I'm so sorry, I meant to type "Lets say you could afford an SRT-8."

I'm amazed no one has brought this up yet but.

Factory----------Factory tuner
CTS--------------CTS-v
300C------------300C SRT-8
GTO-------------__________


Take your GTO to a tuner like Lingenfelter and for $13,000 to get it into the price range of the other two, I'm pretty sure it would out turn the other two and bury them in the performance ratings.

Just one more point for this not being a fair comparison to begin with.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/Ven100/yawning.gif

Foster: If we all took advertisements as literally as you then I guess all SUVs would be offroading. BMWs 3-7 and Acura RLs would all be tearing up those windy roads and race tracks.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/Ven100/I95.jpg

Oooh yes. I-95 does look interesting, it reminds me of the nurburgring. <_<

I might have to drive down there to experience some of the great lane changes on it. Or on second thought, I can do that on the highways here. :rolleyes:

The SRT-8 is...

425 bhp @ 6200 rpm

420 lb.-ft. @ 4800 rpm

There you have it folks, someone actually went to the trouble of posting a map of an interstate near another member to make a point about handling.

Hey CSi pass the popcorn :D

And the gloves are off :lol: I think something crazy just got started in this forum and is going to spill out into the streets and run amuk. :microwave:

I finally got to read the full article and it's pretty even handed (for a change from M/T). If the production behemoth SRT-8 can run the same numbers as this pre-production unit then my hats off to DC on turning that log into somewhat of a handler. But even with its stellar performance, here's what the writer had to say in the last two paragraphs:

(complaints about foot brake followed by) But the rest of the CTS-V is so brilliant we almost don't care. Look at the stats......Note the CTS-V's figure- eight performance. That's less than half a second behind the $190,000 Lamborghini Gallardo's time (and we've never been able to find the Lambo's back seat).

At $51,295, the 2005 Cadillac CTS-V tops this group in price, but it's still a bargain, a sexy, luxurious four-door that'll run with AMG's and M5's (and occasionally taunt a 911) for tens of thousands less. In this trio, it's also the car we'd ask out first for a date to the asphalt dance.

We can't wait to see the look on Miss Two-Lane Blacktop.

I couldn't agree more!

I also must add that the Platinum CTS-V has an additional 15 rwhp vs. the other color choices, but I may be biased.

Originally posted by digitalgod@Jan 1 2005, 12:35 AM
I'm amazed no one has brought this up yet but.

Factory----------Factory tuner
CTS--------------CTS-v
300C------------300C SRT-8
GTO-------------__________


Take your GTO to a tuner like Lingenfelter and for $13,000 to get it into the price range of the other two, I'm pretty sure it would out turn the other two and bury them in the performance ratings.

Just one more point for this not being a fair comparison to begin with.
Or wait until Pontiac makes their own higher performance version in the form of a Judge remake or such. I can only imagine what sort of a$$ kickings that will hand out. (I'd put money on a base power level of at least 450hp/tq give or take a few and numbers firmly set at or better than base C6's.) Of course it will cost at least as much as a Corvette but future value on something like that will be quite good i'm sure.

Thanks for the numbers E8502.

Ok, using those numbers and estimating the redline and torque converter specs and drag coef/frontal area (quite a bit more than the GTO i'm sure), I come back with roughly 13.2's at 107mph which seems quite feasable since MT ran just about that. Here's the kicker... It tops out in 3rd gear **** near redline. IE: It was tuned to go just that fast 'perfectly'. Any faster however and it will drop into 4th which would almost hurt performance. These figures are assuming the driver had a flawless run (hi, automatic transmission) and no wheel spin. Since I dont know the rolling diameter of the tires on the SRT-8, I used the same value as the GTO which i'm 90% sure is too small. (Larger diameter tires would only make the above values 1-2 tenths slower.)

On that note, figures i've come back with for the GTO both in automatic and 6MT form are in the 12.8-12.9 range @ 110mph. This is figuring a 'perfect' run also however it does account for a few tenths of a second (adjustable) for gear shifts with the manual. I've datalogged enough of my passes in my Honda to know it only takes 2-4 tenths to make a 'normal' shift while racing and about half that to power shift. I was figuring 'normal' shifts into the above values.

Otherwise, becides vehicle weight, frontal area, drag coef, transmission values, horsepower/torque values, shift points (taking into consideration the redlines) and redline rpm (I set the SRT-8's redline at 7000rpm for the benifit of the doubt. It could be higher or lower but I dont know for sure.) Now I dont know how big the tires are on the SRT-8 so that may even be wrong.

Keep in mind, this is software emulating the real world and it isnt perfect BUT i've found it to be extremely close in most every case in the past as long as accurate data is input. The better the information put in is, the closer the numbers it spits back are to real world times.

Also, with these tests in mind, the GTO would 'win' a race, but even if it was dead even at the end of the 1/4 mile, past that the GTO would quickly pull on the heavy and less aerodynamic SRT-8. (The GTO is at about 5500rpm in 3rd for the automatic at the traps while the SRT is just about to shift to 4th. The 6MT GTO is also only at 5500rpm at the traps in 4th with plenty of room to continue to accelerate before its next shift as well.)

Originally posted by CSiJason+Jan 1 2005, 11:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CSiJason @ Jan 1 2005, 11:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-digitalgod@Jan 1 2005, 12:35 AM
I'm amazed no one has brought this up yet but.

Factory----------Factory tuner
CTS--------------CTS-v
300C------------300C SRT-8
GTO-------------__________


Take your GTO to a tuner like Lingenfelter and for $13,000 to get it into the price range of the other two, I'm pretty sure it would out turn the other two and bury them in the performance ratings.

Just one more point for this not being a fair comparison to begin with.
Or wait until Pontiac makes their own higher performance version in the form of a Judge remake or such. I can only imagine what sort of a$$ kickings that will hand out. (I'd put money on a base power level of at least 450hp/tq give or take a few and numbers firmly set at or better than base C6's.) Of course it will cost at least as much as a Corvette but future value on something like that will be quite good i'm sure.

Thanks for the numbers E8502. [/b][/quote]
No problem, CSiJason.

But yeah, with mods, the GTO would be even better, no one doubts that. And still, I don't think it was a fair test, because the fact the CTS-V and 300C SRT-8 are sedans, and the GTO is a coupe! Really, that is kinda dumb.

Ask and you shall receive:
390 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm for the 300C with the 5.7L Hemi
--------------------------------------------------------------
CODE
For the 5-Speed in the "regular" 300C:
1st - 3.59
2nd - 2.19
3rd - 1.41
4th - 1.00
5th - 0.83
Reverse - 3.17
Final Drive - 2.82
Overall Top Gear - 2.34
And for the SRT-8: (W5A580 FIVE-SPEED AUTOMATIC)
1st - 3.59
2nd - 2.19
3rd - 1.41
4th - 1.00
5th - 0.83
Reverse - 3.17
Final Drive - 3.06
Overall Top Gear - 2.54



Thank you again. The first 2 gears "short" enough to produce the times I see then. GTO's 1st and 2nd in the M6 are 2.97 and 2.07, 1.43 in 3rd. Now in the A4 1st is right at 3.00 (if memory serves correct) and second is right around 1.60 (once again I might have to look it up).

I'm really starting to see why Pontiac has come up with a quick 0-60 time out of the 4 speed auto over the 6 speed manual. Now I'm really wishing they would have tested an A4 too. 0-60 probably would have topped the SRT-8 maybe even the CTS-V. Although the quarter time may not have and it might not have had quite that high trap speed.

I'm going to have to be inclined to think that this was a weak pre-production mule.

CSIJason

Thanks for running those numbers through your program. It is just that a simulation, not real life and real cars. But it also shows that this 05 MT tested wasn't up to par.

So I'll jump to a conclussion here. The SRT-8 can run these times on the street but it better watch out because when the REAL production 05 GTO's hit the streets they will be running better than the weak times posted by MT in the pre-production mule GM sent them. So do you hear that future 05 owners? I'm expecting the SRT-8 kill stories by this Summer. :D

Ven, I applaud your enthusiasm. However, the ongoing roadwork I mentioned does not appear on your map. This is primarily in Palm Beach county, a little south of your map. You have left out Dade and Broward, which on paper at least, will look much like your previous post. If you have ever driven in Miami you would know that the international cast of characters driving alongside you are all too willing to stop dead in whatever lane they are in, for no apparent reason other than to cause death and destruction while they argue with someone on their cell phone. Then there are all the wonderful bits of road debris scattered about. These would be items like tires, dead animals, soon to be dead animals, broken down vehicles without hazard lights, and such.
Don't know where you are from, so I cannot comment on your highways and byways. As to the adverts, why buy it and not use it? When it comes time to trade the wife's current RL, we may opt for the new one. She will think the handling enhancements are for her safety and I will make a trip to Tennessee to try it out at illegal speeds in the Smokies. I will be going there with the GTO in March or April. I will then update you on the topic you so dearly love.....handling.
Until then I fear you are just depriving some poor village of their idiot. J/K!

holy ****!!! I haven't seen such smack run about an american car comparo since... EVER!!! :woot: i think we all need to look at the era in which we live and smile...at no time in automotive history, other than now, do we have the kind of performance available to the general public. to think that only 5 years ago...we wouldn't even be debating the three cars in the compro or even see them coming... the 300 srt-8, cts-v and the gto are special cars...the kind of performance for the dollar staggers the mind..all of these cars run to sixty in less than 5 sec... :o can transport 4 adults comfortably...are even getting reasonable fuel milage..amazing. I think we can put away the flamethrowers and enjoy our differences...it is what makes us unique...otherwise we'd all be driving the new ford 500 :flush:

bingo

I don't care what you talk about, shedgoat, but I will never drive a ford 500. Or ford anything for that matter. :ph34r:

Alright,alright. I will no longer attempt do have a battle of wits with an unarmed person..................
I will play well with others.
I will play well wih others.
I will play well with others...............

It's one thing to come "armed", it's another to come with ammo. ;)

Originally posted by sickgoatlover@Jan 2 2005, 12:43 PM
I don't care what you talk about, shedgoat, but I will never drive a ford 500. Or ford anything for that matter. :ph34r:
Agreed but I take it to the next level...

I will not drive a 500 or a 300.

Long thread....

Some of the guys here really need to keep a cooler head if you want to keep this site respectable.

Anyway, no one continued to talk about the most important factor. The tires.

I don't want to make excuses for the car that I'd prefer... but seriously, the goat has a major disadvantage with those all-seasons. I know the SRT8 has F1 Supercars and someone said the Caddy runs them also. Big difference.

It's a great comparison for them to run. They are all performance/luxury(ish) cars. I'd take a GTO over any 300, but a cheaper Mag R/T with the ability to haul and tow constantly pops into my head. Since these are all American performance cars, I don't see any reason why it's a bad comparison.

And just so no one starts callin' me a "troll" or anything else, I'd like to state I'm a Pontiac guy all the way, but **** do I love these new mopars comin' out. (Also love the older ones as well.) My cars right now are a '91 Firebird (daily driver), '79 K5 Blazer (hauler/tower) and a '69 Dart (project).

Scott

What ammo? You're firing blanks.
Oops, I forgot.
I will play well with others, etc. .....................

BTW, I'm not a Mopar basher either. Have owned 2 Barracudas during my misspent youth.

Originally posted by Foster'sguy@Jan 3 2005, 11:43 AM
during my misspent youth.
:friday:

I AM WITH YA!!

Originally posted by Foster'sguy@Jan 3 2005, 11:43 AM
What ammo? You're firing blanks.

Yeah. Ok. :rolleyes:

Well, seems some of us agree...

I wouldn't ever touch a 500... I'd get in a GTO before a Ford (just kidding... Actually, I wouldn't mind a GTO by any means, specially the updated '05 model).

Okay, I'm gonna chime in since nearly everyone else has...

First off, I've cross shopped the 300C (04) VS. the GTO (04) VS. the new C6 Vette VS. Subaru WRX STi and for a brief time had a Viper in there. A few of you on here are probably saying, "why, are you on crack, that makes no sense". Well, let me respond to that, several people I know have done the samething.

Here's what happened:
The WRX died first. The Viper 2nd. The C6 was out of the running for a brief time but is now back thanks to the Z06 (but is quickly dying off again thanks to the power ratings from the new engine, I expected better). The 300C is still in the running just barely, but not much thanks to dumbass dealers who want more than sticker and are just plain ticking me off...Don't smile yet, Pontiac dealers did the same thing for a brief time.

What made me crack: GTO's mods and prices for those mods.

Think about this for a moment, I can go out and get a brand new 04 GTO. Go down to Houston's MTI, for 20 grand more I can get 600+HP/Torque. I'll beat the hell outta the above mentioned cars, no questions, no "BUT". End of story, don't even start flamin or whatever it is you'd like. So it's a combined 50 G, to kill'em all. Throw some extra mods on, I'll beat the ish out of anything ever made (such as the EVO Turbo charge setup worth an extra 200/200 almost, we're talking 800 hp/800 torque total, start crying Ferrari/Aston Martin/Porsche/BMW/ETC owners). Can I do it? Yes. Will I do it? Yes. When? 2 years. Why 2 years? Several reasons, the most important is none of anyones business. When it's done, I'll post it all up on this website for everyone to ooooh and ahhh about, then I'll go race people for at minimum of 5 grand to race my GTO vs whatever piece of junk they got they think is fast (thus making them pay for my mods in the end). Think 4 races x 5 g = 20 g, not bad eh? I know Porsche 911 owners that do it all the time, check some of their message boards for proof, or ask anyone who owns a Porsche.

The reason I come here now - research, I want to beat the ever loving ish out of rice burners, f**s who own Mustangs, and my personal favs: DOHC lovers (you will be my b***h, oh yes, run away children).

Finally: this article. I believe it is bull, can I prove it? No. I was looking at the 300C SRT8 in my new C&D today and was attempting to figure out how the GTO could be beaten. My conclusion on the topic is that its got to be that those 25 HP's are really making a difference along with the sweet suspension setup that is going in to it. But GTO owners could easily mod their cars (a very small amount) to the same price point of the stock 300C SRT-8 and beat the ever loving **** out of the 300C SRT-8's. I must agree with the GTO people of this site, the numbers seem very suspect...This coming from a honest lover of the design of the 300C and the power of it.

Here's what I think MOPAR fans need to start looking at before challenging GTO lovers, the rumored (and probable) coupe versions of the 300C and Charger. Once and if that happens, I believe we will have a fair comparo. But as this site's longtime members and GTO fans know, the GTO got hosed in that camparo against the new Mustang (it was total HORSE MANURE, I'm sorry).


P.S.VERY SOON, run Mustang f**s, I'm coming to find everyone of you and destroy your a**s for good.

Originally posted by 3rdGenBlackbird@Jan 3 2005, 06:05 AM
Long thread....

Some of the guys here really need to keep a cooler head if you want to keep this site respectable.

Anyway, no one continued to talk about the most important factor. The tires.

I don't want to make excuses for the car that I'd prefer... but seriously, the goat has a major disadvantage with those all-seasons. I know the SRT8 has F1 Supercars and someone said the Caddy runs them also. Big difference.

It's a great comparison for them to run. They are all performance/luxury(ish) cars. I'd take a GTO over any 300, but a cheaper Mag R/T with the ability to haul and tow constantly pops into my head. Since these are all American performance cars, I don't see any reason why it's a bad comparison.

And just so no one starts callin' me a "troll" or anything else, I'd like to state I'm a Pontiac guy all the way, but **** do I love these new mopars comin' out. (Also love the older ones as well.) My cars right now are a '91 Firebird (daily driver), '79 K5 Blazer (hauler/tower) and a '69 Dart (project).

Scott
I love the Firebirds of the 91-92 era, in my opinion, some of the best styling ever done on a automobile ever. If the engine had the power numbers of todays great sports cars/sedans, my god...That thing would be a monster of a legend.

I must agree with someone's other post...We should all be happy that Detroit is having another HP/Torque war....For far too long we had weak engine (supposedly powerful), gas guzzling (no, I'm not a liberal, but look at those weak numbers and then their mpg, pathetic compared to todays engines/cars), retarded FWD cars.

I think this competition (or whatever you might want to call it), is great for car lovers.

The GTO especially, I would personally like to thank all the excellent companies who help fund this site and create some amazing products for the new GTO (you guys deserve a lot of respect). I mean, look at all the sweet mods you can do to this car, and it's not even been out that long...It's simply amazing, any MOPAR fan should agree with that (I've watched you all dying for mods for the 300C, be honest here).

Anyway, let's all just hold hands and smile, knowing that Mustangs and rice burners can now offically STFU. :hysterical: :friday: :D

Goodnight folks.

My oh my. Where to start?

Seems like someone has been watching too much 2 Fast 2 Furious. Your whole modding to 600HP so you can race for 5gs @ mininum is ridiculous. <_<


When will people stop with the "Well for the price of a <insert higher priced car here> I can buy and mod a <insert lower priced car here> and beat it". It's so generic.

So I guess I can say for the price of a GTO I can go buy some used sports for (let's say around 5K) and I can mod it and make it faster. :rolleyes:


Oh don't worry. There's much more that could've been said. No time for rambling now though. :rolleyes:

Ok this thread has become over run with nothingness

I dub it closed now.