I've had my goat for 500miles now and i;ve read that this is a goot time to change the oil to remove metal shavings. Is this correct? I thinks this is too soon, but I've never owned an LS1 so i'm depending on you guys.

Help!

04 Pulse Red

Lots of debate on this one, Mario. My personal suggestion would be to switch to Mobil-1 now (at 500 miles) and then change again soon (like at 1000 or 1500) and then start a "normal" schedule (whatever that is!.) This is not an LS-1 thing, really, so much as a relatively safe "keep it clean" sort of thing.

I would't use a full synthetic oil until the engine has bedded in around 3,000 to 6,000 miles
you should change your oil & filer at 500 miles but use a high quality running in oil 15w-40 till the motor settles down.

Originally posted by holden tech 126557@Jan 28 2005, 08:26 PM
I would't use a full synthetic oil until the engine has bedded in around 3,000 to 6,000 miles
you should change your oil & filer at 500 miles but use a high quality running in oil 15w-40 till the motor settles down.
There is not an owners manual in the U.S. that would suggest using 15W40. Maybe they recommend it down there if your running hard in 100+ degree heat all the time, but 5W30 is the standard here.

Leave your oil in your new engine for at LEAST 3,000 miles....and whatever you do, DO NOT drain it out and put synthetic in it with only 500 miles on it. It will NEVER break in. I would recommend using a premium 5W-30, NON-synthetic oil. The only advantage synthetic oil gives you is it retains it's lubricity MUCH longer than organic oil...HOWEVER, it gets dirty just as quick. THIS is what wears your engine out. It still needs to be changed at the same interval. Save your money, buy regular oil.

Originally posted by mechanic58@Feb 12 2005, 08:36 PM
Leave your oil in your new engine for at LEAST 3,000 miles....and whatever you do, DO NOT drain it out and put synthetic in it with only 500 miles on it. It will NEVER break in. I would recommend using a premium 5W-30, NON-synthetic oil. The only advantage synthetic oil gives you is it retains it's lubricity MUCH longer than organic oil...HOWEVER, it gets dirty just as quick. THIS is what wears your engine out. It still needs to be changed at the same interval. Save your money, buy regular oil.
Let me get this straight....

If the only advantage to synthetic oil is retention of lubricity, why would it prevent the engine from breaking in? Is it super-slippery, eliminating all friction between moving parts? It will not break down like regular oil, but as you said there should be no difference between the 2 types of oil as long as it's changed frequently. I agree synthetic may be a waste of money if you're changing your oil every 3k miles, but saying it won't let your motor break in doesn't make sense. I thought this myth was dispelled already.

The '05 comes with Mobil 1 from the factory (the '04 might have too), I'm sure GM engineers wouldn't do this if it would harm the engine........

Not trying to be an a** here, just don't want people perpetuating information that might not be correct.

Originally posted by mechanic58@Feb 12 2005, 08:36 PM
Leave your oil in your new engine for at LEAST 3,000 miles....and whatever you do, DO NOT drain it out and put synthetic in it with only 500 miles on it. It will NEVER break in. I would recommend using a premium 5W-30, NON-synthetic oil. The only advantage synthetic oil gives you is it retains it's lubricity MUCH longer than organic oil...HOWEVER, it gets dirty just as quick. THIS is what wears your engine out. It still needs to be changed at the same interval. Save your money, buy regular oil.
This is utter nonsense.

In order for your engine to break in, there has to be SOME wear allowed to take place in the cylinders and various other places, so that opposing moving parts will "mate" up properly. If your rings aren't allowed to wear-in and "seat", your engine will never perform like it should and may even use oil. Synthetic oil is so slippery, it retards this initial break-in process. This is a fact. If it wasn't true, your car would come from the factory with synthetic oil in it.

It is my understanding that the car comes from the factory with Mobil 1 which is synthetic. Source was service manager at Roper Pontiac, Joplin, MO.

Originally posted by mechanic58@Feb 19 2005, 05:04 PM
Synthetic oil is so slippery, it retards this initial break-in process. This is a fact. If it wasn't true, your car would come from the factory with synthetic oil in it.


It did........read my post above.

Originally posted by mechanic58@Feb 19 2005, 05:04 PM
In order for your engine to break in, there has to be SOME wear allowed to take place in the cylinders and various other places, so that opposing moving parts will "mate" up properly. If your rings aren't allowed to wear-in and "seat", your engine will never perform like it should and may even use oil. Synthetic oil is so slippery, it retards this initial break-in process. This is a fact. If it wasn't true, your car would come from the factory with synthetic oil in it.
Um...you are aware that the C5 Corvette with LS1 comes from the factory with Mobil-1? If it was damaging to the engine, why would GM put it in their premiere sports car? The reason the GTO doesn't have it is probably cost. Save a few pennies for the import fees from shipping for Oz.

As I mentioned in another post, it is absurd to say that a synthetic oil will not allow an engine to ever break in. If that was true, the oil would have to be so good as to prevent absolutely ALL engine wear whatsoever, never allowing mating of surfaces. The logical continuation of that assertion is that your engine would last FOREVER with no wear of any kind for as long as you can pour fuel in the tank or when you die, whichever comes first.

The 05 comes with Mobil 1 -- says so in the owners manual.
"Your vehicle's engine is filled at the factory with a Mobil 1 synthetic oil, which meets all requirements for your vehicle." Page 5-16

Regarding oil viscosity:
"As shown on the viscosity chart, SAE 5W-30 is the best for your vehicle. ..... DO NOT USE OTHER VISCOSITY OILS such as SAE 20W-50." Page 5-15

Regarding break-in:
"Notice: Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break-in. But it will perform better in the long run if you follow these guidelines:
Keep your speed at 55mph or less for the first 500 miles.
Do not drive at any one speed, fast or slow, for the first 500 miles. Do not make full throttle starts." Page 2-15

This is the same break-in procedure that I have always used on all my vehicles listed below with totally trouble-free engine life on all of them, although in recent years the break-in procedure has often been omitted from the owner manuals. Every engine was in prime condition when traded (wrecked the Saab), and I have NEVER, ever had to add oil between changes in any car I've ever owned, EVER. I try for 2,000 miles changes but often let it slip to 3,000, never longer. My cars have all been daily drivers and run over 20,000 per year.

Metal to metal sliding friction is reduced by using dissimilar metals. The reason for that is because the atomic crystalline structure is different in different metals. With similar metals, since the crystal lattice is the same, it is easy for these to "interlock" and cause extreme wear due to shearing. Some shearing is inevitable, but with modern metallurgy and machining techniques combined with computer controlled manufacturing, engine tolerances today are much closer and better matched than even a decade ago. Rings do need to seat, but they do so with no problem during break-in. We no longer have to have compression and oil control rings "sealed" by carbon deposits.

I'm not saying there aren't other ways to do it, but I'll defer to the GM engineers on this one, guys, and to my own experience as an owner, service manager, and GM Master Tech. :type:

Originally posted by mldavis@Mar 27 2005, 05:07 PM
As I mentioned in another post, it is absurd to say that a synthetic oil will not allow an engine to ever break in. If that was true, the oil would have to be so good as to prevent absolutely ALL engine wear whatsoever, never allowing mating of surfaces. The logical continuation of that assertion is that your engine would last FOREVER with no wear of any kind for as long as you can pour fuel in the tank or when you die, whichever comes first.

The 05 comes with Mobil 1 -- says so in the owners manual.
"Your vehicle's engine is filled at the factory with a Mobil 1 synthetic oil, which meets all requirements for your vehicle." Page 5-16

Regarding oil viscosity:
"As shown on the viscosity chart, SAE 5W-30 is the best for your vehicle. ..... DO NOT USE OTHER VISCOSITY OILS such as SAE 20W-50." Page 5-15

Regarding break-in:
"Notice: Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break-in. But it will perform better in the long run if you follow these guidelines:
Keep your speed at 55mph or less for the first 500 miles.
Do not drive at any one speed, fast or slow, for the first 500 miles. Do not make full throttle starts." Page 2-15

This is the same break-in procedure that I have always used on all my vehicles listed below with totally trouble-free engine life on all of them, although in recent years the break-in procedure has often been omitted from the owner manuals. Every engine was in prime condition when traded (wrecked the Saab), and I have NEVER, ever had to add oil between changes in any car I've ever owned, EVER. I try for 2,000 miles changes but often let it slip to 3,000, never longer. My cars have all been daily drivers and run over 20,000 per year.

Metal to metal sliding friction is reduced by using dissimilar metals. The reason for that is because the atomic crystalline structure is different in different metals. With similar metals, since the crystal lattice is the same, it is easy for these to "interlock" and cause extreme wear due to shearing. Some shearing is inevitable, but with modern metallurgy and machining techniques combined with computer controlled manufacturing, engine tolerances today are much closer and better matched than even a decade ago. Rings do need to seat, but they do so with no problem during break-in. We no longer have to have compression and oil control rings "sealed" by carbon deposits.

I'm not saying there aren't other ways to do it, but I'll defer to the GM engineers on this one, guys, and to my own experience as an owner, service manager, and GM Master Tech. :type:
I agree, just read the manual, and look on the oil filler cap.

BTW-where is the "I agree" smiley???

No wonder so many people are confused about what to do during the first 3000 miles of a car. Jeez!

Punch it !

The one note regarding the break-in process about keeping the speed below 55mph for the first 500 miles. That's a pretty hard rule to follow. I couldn't follow that for the first 50 miles, let alone 500.

It is my understanding that the car comes from the factory with Mobil 1 which is synthetic. Source was service manager at Roper Pontiac, Joplin, MO.

I just had my first oil change (3,100 miles). Upon picking up the car, I confirmed they replaced the oil with Mobil1. The advisor said no, regular valvoline. I instructed they replace with Mobil1 which they were happy to do. The service advisor at my dealer then proceeded to inform me that all GTO's are shipped with non-synthetic oil and they only put in the Mobil1 during regular oil changes if a customer specifically asks for it. Of course the cost is more too.
Now I'm wondering if they replaced the oil filter too since it would have contained a quart of the non-synthetic valvoline. I'm planning to continue using the Mobil1 and changing around every 6,000 miles.
Just thought it was interesting that the GTO would be shipped with the non-synthetic oil. Anyone else heard of this?

I just had my first oil change (3,100 miles). Upon picking up the car, I confirmed they replaced the oil with Mobil1. The advisor said no, regular valvoline. I instructed they replace with Mobil1 which they were happy to do. The service advisor at my dealer then proceeded to inform me that all GTO's are shipped with non-synthetic oil and they only put in the Mobil1 during regular oil changes if a customer specifically asks for it. Of course the cost is more too.
Now I'm wondering if they replaced the oil filter too since it would have contained a quart of the non-synthetic valvoline. I'm planning to continue using the Mobil1 and changing around every 6,000 miles.
Just thought it was interesting that the GTO would be shipped with the non-synthetic oil. Anyone else heard of this?

I'v herd of it before...can't confirm it thought.

my 2005 LS2 came from the factory with Mobil 1. In fact, the oil cap has " Mobil 1 Only" printed on it.

Sorta related....my 2005 F150 (4.6L) used SEVEN (7) quarts of oil in the first 1,500 miles. Had I not checked it by fluke, the first time I put gas in it with only 150 miles on it, I am sure I would blown the engine up. I later found out that Ford actually issued a service bulletin about excessive oil consumption during break in with the 4.6s. I was shocked. Soon as it hit 1,500 miles, it stopped using oil like someone turned off a switch.

P.S. I STILL refuse to buy synthetic motor oil. Motor oil's motor oil.

Sorta related....my 2005 F150 (4.6L) used SEVEN (7) quarts of oil in the first 1,500 miles. Had I not checked it by fluke, the first time I put gas in it with only 150 miles on it, I am sure I would blown the engine up. I later found out that Ford actually issued a service bulletin about excessive oil consumption during break in with the 4.6s. I was shocked. Soon as it hit 1,500 miles, it stopped using oil like someone turned off a switch.

P.S. I STILL refuse to buy synthetic motor oil. Motor oil's motor oil.


Let me guess, all because of dino oil seating the rings. Where's my BULL**** flag when I need it.

lol...wanna argue? You'll lose. I KNOW that synthetic oil does have some advantages, but it's not cost-effective. I know this because I have done the experiments on several of my personal vehicles over the years. And if you're implying that I'm lying about the F150 using all that oil in 1,500 miles...well then I don't know what to tell ya. The same truck left me stranded also, when it had 3,200 miles on it. Fuel pump quit. The check engine light first came on when it had SEVEN miles on it, on the way home from the dealership with it.

actually synthetic oil is vastly supperior to standard oil. Its lasts longer between oil changes so the extra cost is a moot point. It doesnt lose it lighter hydrocarbons like standard oil does . synthetic oils on a molecular level are far more uniform in chain lengths than conventional oils(which affects its viscosity).Because the viscosity of the synthetic tends to stay the same it will actually mantain horsepower rather than lose it like conventional oil. same goes for gas mileage.
also compare the some snthetic to an equal weight conventional oil the synthetic starts out thinner .you would think 5-30 is 5-30 but its not synthetic is thinner this may have to do with the density of the oil i dont know but try it some time youll see what i mean.
in the end your motor will last longer . you can go 4 times longer with synthetic as with conventional. plus your mileage is better.

however if you burn an ungadly amount of oil or your engine leaks with convetional then dont waste the money on synthetic since youll always be replenishing it and the motor is already a pig.

Um...it still gets dirty just as quick. The filth is what wears your engine out. There isn't an oil filter on the market that is fine enough to filter the oil CLEAN. Would restrict the flow too much. I'm stickin to my partsmaster 5W-30 @ $1.49 a quart.

I use Royal Purple, been using it for years. Now my first oil change on the my GOAT i used what the manufactor called for, but next will be the old Royal Purple again

lol...wanna argue? You'll lose. I KNOW that synthetic oil does have some advantages, but it's not cost-effective. I know this because I have done the experiments on several of my personal vehicles over the years. And if you're implying that I'm lying about the F150 using all that oil in 1,500 miles...well then I don't know what to tell ya. The same truck left me stranded also, when it had 3,200 miles on it. Fuel pump quit. The check engine light first came on when it had SEVEN miles on it, on the way home from the dealership with it.


I doubt it. Cost effective to who, you? Spare me the experiments Dr. Oil. 7 miles.... lmao

Um...it still gets dirty just as quick. The filth is what wears your engine out. There isn't an oil filter on the market that is fine enough to filter the oil CLEAN. Would restrict the flow too much. I'm stickin to my partsmaster 5W-30 @ $1.49 a quart.
thats a buch of bull . the oil stays clean way longer. The filth you get in your oil for the most part is actually the oil itself breaking down. synthetic takes far longer to breakdown therefore it stays cleaner longer and this is why you can run 10k miles or up to a year on 1 oil change.you can put whatever you like in your motor because your obviously more intelligent than the engineers who designed the motor. think about it why would all the top models by the top manufacturers use synthetics. They have no ties to these oil companies to what benifit would it be to them. in fact they could have saved money by useing thousands of gallons of cheaper dino oil instead.

I use Royal Purple, been using it for years. Now my first oil change on the my GOAT i used what the manufactor called for, but next will be the old Royal Purple again

Ive heard the royal purple is good stuff .Some say better than amsoil.

I was told by the folks at Thunder Racing that the Royal Purple, Red Line, and Mobil 1 are all equally good. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

-K

next oil change, I think I'll just go with crisco.

next oil change, I think I'll just go with crisco.

Stop the flame fest........jeeze. Why does ONE GUY always have to be right, no matter how wrong he is? Went researching after I read this thread and there have been so many independent tests from oil companies, the government, other governments around the world, consumer safety and fraud protection groups...you name it, about this topic. They all say the same thing, the synthetic oil works better, stay cleaner and holds viscosity better than conventional oil. People who's sole job is catching companies lying to consumers even say that it works. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but there have been improvements in oil production and refining since they discovered it and figured out it's a good way to lubricate an internal combustion engine.

Sorry for the outburst, had to get it off my chest.

Donno, did any of your research lead to a statement as to whether or not there was a difference between synthetics? I am curious to know if one brand stands out from the rest. Currently I am running Mobil 1, for which I am paying about $26 per 5 quarts.

-K

I was told by the folks at Thunder Racing that the Royal Purple, Red Line, and Mobil 1 are all equally good. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

-K

I have been using Royal Purple in my cars for years, and love it. I only use Red line Water Wetter, so I can only comment on that one, and it helped my tempature go down, so I like it also.

I use the watter wetter in my 442 and it does indeed work very well for the coolant.

Donno, did any of your research lead to a statement as to whether or not there was a difference between synthetics? I am curious to know if one brand stands out from the rest. Currently I am running Mobil 1, for which I am paying about $26 per 5 quarts.

-K


Not really, they would just use "brand x conventional v. brand x synthetic", they do this to avoid a lawsuit and to say that they are unbiased. All of the tests would test the a single company's oils against each other, to avoid such accusations. But they did find that there are lubrication qualities with sythetic and blended oils that are better then conventional oils. This can be misleading, some of the oil companies used "straight" oils (i.e. SAE 30, not 10w30) against their synthetics (EXXON, go figure). But I can't believe that would bother us because that brand doesn't sell their synthetics in the states. There was nothing that I found that was an independent study picking a winner between different brands. Hope that helps some.

Not really, they would just use "brand x conventional v. brand x synthetic", they do this to avoid a lawsuit and to say that they are unbiased. All of the tests would test the a single company's oils against each other, to avoid such accusations. But they did find that there are lubrication qualities with sythetic and blended oils that are better then conventional oils. This can be misleading, some of the oil companies used "straight" oils (i.e. SAE 30, not 10w30) against their synthetics (EXXON, go figure). But I can't believe that would bother us because that brand doesn't sell their synthetics in the states. There was nothing that I found that was an independent study picking a winner between different brands. Hope that helps some.

Thanks for the information. Let me ask about the tests conducted to determine that synthetics are better than the standard "dino" oil. First, in your readings, did you come across the methodology used to make the comparison? I guess that I would imagine what the two lubes would be used in identical engines (i.e., size, number of miles, same testing conditions, etc). Then after so many miles at various RPM's the oil is drained and tested. I imagine they would test for viscosity, lubricating properties, suspended solids, etc. Second, was there any indication that a sensitivity analysis performed? I would be interested to know how the oils compared for normal driving conditions versus extreme driving conditions. I am just curious by nature and thinking aloud. I guess that if I were really curious, I could go and look this up on my own. :)

-K

Thanks for the information. Let me ask about the tests conducted to determine that synthetics are better than the standard "dino" oil. First, in your readings, did you come across the methodology used to make the comparison? I guess that I would imagine what the two lubes would be used in identical engines (i.e., size, number of miles, same testing conditions, etc). Then after so many miles at various RPM's the oil is drained and tested. I imagine they would test for viscosity, lubricating properties, suspended solids, etc. Second, was there any indication that a sensitivity analysis performed? I would be interested to know how the oils compared for normal driving conditions versus extreme driving conditions. I am just curious by nature and thinking aloud. I guess that if I were really curious, I could go and look this up on my own. :)

-K

To be honest, I would start reading at night between missions (still in Iraq you know) and doze off, realize that I am not going to make it through this study and go to the conclusion. That being said what I did read in most test is that they would simulate the wear on various engine parts in a lab, most of the time using bearing, cams, and other "high stress" areas knows to cause the most breakdown of a motor oil. Not many test were actually done on a complete engine, I guess due to cost control measures and the time for the test to actually occur. They seemed to test the oil to its failing point, which would not only overall strength but also the endurance and it's ability to maintain viscosity over a period of time. Sorry, I didn't get too in depth in the reading, I research for a living (in the JAG CORPS) and really would rather go "home" after a mission read a magazine or race my Holden or GTO on GT4 rather than read another report all the way through, LOL.

To be honest, I would start reading at night between missions (still in Iraq you know) and doze off, realize that I am not going to make it through this study and go to the conclusion. That being said what I did read in most test is that they would simulate the wear on various engine parts in a lab, most of the time using bearing, cams, and other "high stress" areas knows to cause the most breakdown of a motor oil. Not many test were actually done on a complete engine, I guess due to cost control measures and the time for the test to actually occur. They seemed to test the oil to its failing point, which would not only overall strength but also the endurance and it's ability to maintain viscosity over a period of time. Sorry, I didn't get too in depth in the reading, I research for a living (in the JAG CORPS) and really would rather go "home" after a mission read a magazine or race my Holden or GTO on GT4 rather than read another report all the way through, LOL.

If I would just get off my lazy butt, I am sure that I could research this topic myself. I guess I was hoping for the Cliff Notes version. ;) In any event, you have given me the essential information, for which I was looking. Still in Iraq? Be careful and make it home safe. Thanks.

-K

If I would just get off my lazy butt, I am sure that I could research this topic myself. I guess I was hoping for the Cliff Notes version. ;) In any event, you have given me the essential information, for which I was looking.

LOL, sounds like my attorneys........