http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/pmdemas/4ff6.jpg

2007 SVT Cobra to be unvieled at the Detroit Auto Show starting March 25

SVT Still Kicking, Ford Says

"With no cars currently on the market, there’ve been plenty of rumors working their way through the industry grapevine about the future of Ford Motor Co.’s high-performance SVT unit. But “reports of its demise have been greatly exaggerated,” the head of the brand-within-a-brand told TheCarConnection.com, lifting a turn-of-phrase from Mark Twain. “We’d hate to give up on the brand equity we’ve established over the last 10 years,” insisted Hau Thai-Tang, the new boss of SVT, who until recently led the development of the new, retro-styled Mustang. An SVT version of the Mustang will be unveiled at the upcoming New York Auto Show, said Thai-Tang, and though he wouldn’t confirm production plans, sources told TCC it’s a bit more than a year away. Several other possible SVT models are under consideration, with an emphasis on adding a more mainstream product, such as a high-performance Fusion sedan.


Details:

- 465HP, 6-speed manual running in the low 12's with a trap speed of 120mph!

- You choose the rear suspension set up, either IRS or Solid Rear Axle with the IRS apparently pulling over 1.0g in the corners...

- The Price... in and around 30k

Motor: 5.4 Supercharged, 3 valve heads (with HUGE valves), forged internals similar to the 4.6 (Crank, rods, etc), modestly rated (under rated actually) ~465 HP/495 lb ft Torque, using a twin screw S/C similar to that on the Ford GT but pullied differently, hence the lower HP. This motor was supposedly made official (in house only) just in the last few days.

Transmissions: 6 speed manuals standard with a heavy duty 5 speed auto (the tranny used on the Ford Superduty but programmed/geared differently) as an option in late '07 or the '08 M/Y

Suspensions: A re-engineered, heavy duty IRS will be an option with a modified 3 link/panhard bar-live axle setup as the standard rear axle. SVT will be going for the Road Race buyer as well as the straight line racer with both axles optional. However, the Axle options are not set in stone as of the moment but look highly likely to be approved. The Cobra will be lowered about 1.5" from a stock GT.

Bodywork: The retro theme will continue with a serious nod to the '67 Shelby. The fenders may be flared more than the standard '05 but that is not for certain as of now. The ducktail will be factory installed. Also, no convertible is planned for now but no reason was given other than concerns over chassis reliability due to the torque volume.
More rumors spreading around about this.

Cobra Discussion (http://www.newagegto.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=3694)

Seeing these numbers, I'm interested in seeing what the 2006 GTO's numbers will be because didn't Lutz promise an increase in power for every year of the Holden based GTO? I'm interested in seeing if GM comes out with a JUDGE on top of a base mosel GTO, cause that would be sweet. I would like to see it with a detuned LS7, but I know they can only make a limited number of those engines per year and those would be for the Z06. That would be sweet to see. I'm still interested in seeing what happens though.

Well keep in mind this car is an 07, which is when the new GTO platform is debuting...

Check out the discussion of the car in the lounge...
NAGTO.com Disucssion of 07 Cobra. (http://www.newagegto.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=3694)

Thanks for the info.

Somehow I doubt this claim though....

- The Price... in and around 30k

465 HP is going to cost more than 30K. I bet the "around" will be more like 35K base price with options ranging higher than that.

A 300 horse GT runs 25K el strippo to 30K loaded up. 165 HP more is going to cost ya'. :D

Let's hope the 07 GTO is sporting the 500 horse LS7 by that time. :)

YEAH RIGHT!!! It has a de-tuned Ford GT engine, look how much they're selling that for!!! There is no way it will be around $30,000! A current Mustang GT (loaded) is 30 large. The Cobra will have IRS, 165 more hp, and 175 more ft lbs of torque. $30,000. HA!

Besides, the Cobra is a definite better car than the GTO. The GTO already has better value than the Mustang with 100 more hp and IRS. There's isn't a possible way for this car to be cheaper than a C6 Corvette, no less than 45 grand.

Yes, that would be sweet for Pontiac to do. Put a de-tuned LS7 in the GTO. But as an option, not base, so that there's still the 400 hp one to sell for a more reasonable price.

A little lighter, lower, wider tires, more power. 2007 GTO Judge! ooo that would be SOOOO AWESOME!

The 03-04's were 34-35k. If there getting a more refined and more powerful Cobra there's no way it will check in 4 to 5k less than the current Cobra. :rolleyes:

That image is heavily photoshopped. Shelby cobra info was in the latest MT.

Originally posted by joshls@Feb 9 2005, 05:46 AM
That image is heavily photoshopped. Shelby cobra info was in the latest MT.

Motor Trend's predictions are wildly innacurate more often than not. The only thing MT seemed to get right is that the car may come with a tweaked live-axle rear instead of the IRS previously planned for the car as this rumour seems to have legs.

The more solid rumours would indicate looking for an under-rated car, about 460 "rated" hp or so, that makes very close to 500 actual hp. Also, look for a base price tag right around 40k with options allowing you to take it well into the 40's.

That article is completey wrong.

1. NO IRS for 07 Cobra. Not at this point in time
2. It won't be getting the 5.4L engine
3. Price around 40-45K

Well its great that we get new imformation from such reputable sources...

Originally posted by nikivee@Feb 21 2005, 11:22 AM
That article is completey wrong.

1. NO IRS for 07 Cobra. Not at this point in time
2. It won't be getting the 5.4L engine
3. Price around 40-45K
Thanks, Niki! Any serious rumors about what will be under the hood?

Originally posted by gto_in_nc+Feb 21 2005, 04:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gto_in_nc @ Feb 21 2005, 04:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nikivee@Feb 21 2005, 11:22 AM
That article is completey wrong.

1. NO IRS for 07 Cobra. Not at this point in time
2. It won't be getting the 5.4L engine
3. Price around 40-45K
Thanks, Niki! Any serious rumors about what will be under the hood? [/b][/quote]
2 Hamsters - with an optional squirl

Most likely 4.6 Supercharged. Over 400hp, but nowhere near 465hp.

Originally posted by nikivee@Feb 24 2005, 05:12 PM
Most likely 4.6 Supercharged. Over 400hp, but nowhere near 465hp.
Confirmation from highly reliable sources on a board I frequent say otherwise. The motor will absolutely be a blown 5.4L, 3-valve making well over 400hp......this is virtual known fact at this point. HP is still up in the air but the lowest estimate trickling out of people "in the know" is 440 rated hp (every source indicates that under-rating will continue) and that was the low-ball number of the group by a long shot. Thus far no legit/raliable source has indicated an actual hp number below 450hp and most are indicating well above that.

We will see the car in under a month where the above will most likely be validated. The board I am referring to has been the most accurate "predictor" of all things Mustang by far, and several people very much in the know both leak and post information to the site fairly regularly.

Originally posted by jsaylor@Feb 28 2005, 01:02 PM

Confirmation from highly reliable sources on a board I frequent say otherwise. T
[/quote]
Ask those reliable resources.what the price is going to be so I can start laughing now....I can't wait another month.LOL

Originally posted by turbota@Mar 3 2005, 12:33 AM

Confirmation from highly reliable sources on a board I frequent say otherwise. T

Ask those reliable resources.what the price is going to be so I can start laughing now....I can't wait another month.LOL [/quote]
Well, it would seem that the new SVT Mustang is going to come in just under 40k if rumours hold out. If Ford delivers on handling and performance on anything like the level they have promised you will not be able to buy a faster car for anything like the same amount of dough. A 450+hp car for under 40k, sounds like a steal to me.

It would also appear likely that there will be a full-fledged 500hp (and likely under-rated at that) Shelby Mustang with IRS to slot in above this car in the future. As a matter of fact Shelby himself mentioned those specs on a radio program, and as Ford had previously mentioned that there would be a Shelby badged Mustang in the future so this one looks legit too.

From a performance point of view many folks speculate that the Shelby will be to the new SVT Mustang roughly what the older Cobra R's were to the standard Cobra's in 93, 95, and 2000. However, the Shelby would appear to be a fully appointed car unlike the race ready R cars of old so this one would appear to be built to drive. As for price guesses on the Shelby, you probably do not want to know and likely neither do I.

Some folks speculate that if these two cars indeed do exist and are seperate models specs of these two cars have likely gotten crossed in the rumour mill. It will be interesting to see what shows up on the SVT platform in 3 weeks, but bet on 5.4L, nearly 500 actual hp, and a price around (and most likely just shy of) 40k.

I am so tired of this underrating nonsence. Anytime Ford makes a car these days all the forums clamor around saying its really underrated. Untill the car is out there is NO WAY to know if it is or not. Yes the 03 Cobra was, but the 2000 Cobra was overrated, so they even out.

I hear the GT40 is underrated also, but you know untill I see an actual "stock" dyno sheet, from a reputable source, its going to remain at its 500HP. The same holds true for the new GT, and the new Cobra.

Many say the new GT is actually 320...Maybe counting 20% drivetrain loss, but youd be hardpressed to get 15, its more like 12 in a live axle car. Chances are if your car seems underrated, its not, it just has less drivetrain loss. :jumpon:

Anyways, back to the point, I dont see the Cobra having more than 450-465 HP, with the 39K price tag. In which case the GTO I think is still a better buy. We will see once it debuts.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Mar 3 2005, 06:11 AM
I am so tired of this underrating nonsence. Anytime Ford makes a car these days all the forums clamor around saying its really underrated. Untill the car is out there is NO WAY to know if it is or not. Yes the 03 Cobra was, but the 2000 Cobra was overrated, so they even out.

I hear the GT40 is underrated also, but you know untill I see an actual "stock" dyno sheet, from a reputable source, its going to remain at its 500HP. The same holds true for the new GT, and the new Cobra.

Many say the new GT is actually 320...Maybe counting 20% drivetrain loss, but youd be hardpressed to get 15, its more like 12 in a live axle car. Chances are if your car seems underrated, its not, it just has less drivetrain loss. :jumpon:

Anyways, back to the point, I dont see the Cobra having more than 450-465 HP, with the 39K price tag. In which case the GTO I think is still a better buy. We will see once it debuts.
I do not know of a single owner that has dynoed their Ford GT. (no surprise) But, Roush racing said the car made over 550hp at the wheels with the tires spinning on the dyno during their endurance testing! How reputable you feel Roush is is strictly up to you but if they are lieing then they are lieing big.

And the GT is actually rated at 550hp, not 500 as you cite and Ford initially reported. Ford adjusted the rated number higher after Roush's dyno numbers leaked to the public and the press. I suppose they felt it was pushing it just a bit too much to rate a car at less hp than it makes at the wheels.

Also, Mustang GT's commonly come up 10-20hp under-rated using a 15-16% dyno loss rate. About 15hp seems to be the magic number with 20hp being very good and 10hp being a bit low. IMO I feel this is most likely just Ford "padding" their numbers so they wont run into another 2000my disaster. I have never known anyone to use a 20% adjustment on a rwd car like the Mustang and I even consider 17% to be pushing it a bit. However, 12% driveline loss is way too low and in no way realistic or indicative of actual parasitic loss.

Mach-1's were about 20hp under-rated from the factory too, not juts Cobra's, and I think this has more or less become a trend within Ford of late. It is worth mentioning that 99-04my Mustang GT's were not in any way under-rated and I have never run into anyone who claims that they were. I think this further demonstrates that Ford's under0-rating of hi-po cars is more or less a post 2000 Cobra phenomenon.

Finally, I think that for the most part GM guys are not as "aggravated" by what they feel are exaggerated hp numbers as much as they hate that the cars make this kind of hp. Hi-po Fords are not the only under-rated cars on earth, as I well learned from spending a LOT of time at a Porsche repair facilitys dyno during open sessions. Even in stock trim the old LS1 F-bodies were always over-performing as were Mach-1's and Cobra's. Z06's sandbagged a bit as did Lightnings and a few others. Most of the Europeans, if not imports as a whole, laid down almost exactly what they should have to end up with the rated hp numbers the factory claimed. (taking corrections into consideration)

I have notices almost nobody complains when the "gravy" is going to the home team, but people frequently cry foul when the "enemy" is laying down great numbers too.

Well I ran into this same issue on the Cobalt SS forums, which is where I herd 20% for the 05 GT.

It annoys me no matter what make/model as it leads to every forum on the net having different numbers for different cars. The Cobalt guys say they have 220 actually, the RSX guys will then say its not and its 205...and it annoys me greatly. So from now on im going off official numbers.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Mar 3 2005, 07:01 AM
Well I ran into this same issue on the Cobalt SS forums, which is where I herd 20% for the 05 GT.

It annoys me no matter what make/model as it leads to every forum on the net having different numbers for different cars. The Cobalt guys say they have 220 actually, the RSX guys will then say its not and its 205...and it annoys me greatly. So from now on im going off official numbers.
Not a bad approach, especially if you have not seen a dyno run or sheet on a particular vehicle yourself. It is difficult to take somebody elses word for it especially when so much, ahem, creative thought is applied to hp rating.

I did notice that after Cobra's and Z06's became so well known for being under-rated everybody was bringing in their car and expecting it to be under-rated too no matter hwo ridiculous. Why, God only knows.

And it did get aggravating especially when it was a totally ludicrous car like a Acura RSX, Honda Civic Si, or something else of the same cloth. And usually, these were the very cars whose owners were most determined tp prove that they were under-rated wonders of the world. So I can see where you are coming from.

I have always looked at it this way. If you are happy with the rated hp level and power of your car consider anything extra strictly as a bonus. And never count on the fact that your car is one of those "special" under-rated cars as it too often leads to disappointment.

Now, if I can only take this lesson to heart myself ;)

Agreed, its just to bad no one else will do the same.

Originally posted by TITAN@Jan 27 2005, 09:30 PM
Seeing these numbers, I'm interested in seeing what the 2006 GTO's numbers will be because didn't Lutz promise an increase in power for every year of the Holden based GTO? I'm interested in seeing if GM comes out with a JUDGE on top of a base mosel GTO, cause that would be sweet. I would like to see it with a detuned LS7, but I know they can only make a limited number of those engines per year and those would be for the Z06. That would be sweet to see. I'm still interested in seeing what happens though.
Definently a Judge with the 427! :D

Originally posted by JUDGE+Mar 4 2005, 04:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JUDGE @ Mar 4 2005, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TITAN@Jan 27 2005, 09:30 PM
Seeing these numbers, I'm interested in seeing what the 2006 GTO's numbers will be because didn't Lutz promise an increase in power for every year of the Holden based GTO? I'm interested in seeing if GM comes out with a JUDGE on top of a base mosel GTO, cause that would be sweet. I would like to see it with a detuned LS7, but I know they can only make a limited number of those engines per year and those would be for the Z06. That would be sweet to see. I'm still interested in seeing what happens though.
Definently a Judge with the 427! :D [/b][/quote]
My prediction "if Lutz hold this" would be 425hp and about that in Tq

I would not expect any miracles from a 2006 - Unless we have a Divine intervention

Originally posted by Nocturn@Mar 3 2005, 01:11 AM

Anyways, back to the point, I dont see the Cobra having more than 450-465 HP, with the 39K price tag. In which case the GTO I think is still a better buy. We will see once it debuts.
:bs: I've seen price, spec, and road test comparisons of the 05' GT and the GTO. Yes the GTO had some (only some) better ratings, but for the most part the cars where identical in times, and the Stang was quite a bit cheaper. I think for an extra hundred supposed horse, the GTO buyer is getting screwed. With a few small adjustments the true Mustang motor head will have the needed bolt-ons to blow away the GTO. Shelby is supposedly coming out with there own Cobra, Nothing to do with the SVT. That cobra I've thought I remember seeing closer to 600 horse. I've just recently seen some reports saying the 07 SVT Cobra will be around 450hp. I'm sure it will be anything from 450-500. But whatever it is, again with some minor bolt on's as most stangers do, we'll be watching the GTO in the mirror.
Now don't get me wrong I've got a 2000 GTP as well, the thing screams, and will most definetly take an older (up to 94-95) stock 5.0. But again Knowing from having both vechicles, by just adding some cheap bolt on parts the GTP cannot compete. My 93 LX (with minor bolt-ons) will wipe the a** out of my GTP, (also with minor bolt-ons). When stock the GTP was sitting at 245, now I'm at 255-260, Stock my LX was 225, with the add-ons I'm at or a little above 300, but the torque difference is huge. As for the price of the Cobra, I can say it would be worth every penny, your getting a sweet a** ride, over the Grand Am look alike on Steriods. Hopefully the redesign will give it some style.

Urm, an 05 GTO will bea the living snot out of a GT Mustang on any day of the week. It will take a good deal of mods to get the GT up to the 05 performance standards.

Id rather have my grandam on steroids than some POS 45K trim level of a wanna be classic car than is driven by every 16 year old prom queen in the country.

I really Don't know about kicking the snot out of the 05 stang. but at a 0-60 of 5.1 sec. and a quarter mile of 13.8 for the Stang, and a 0-60 time of 4.8 sec. and a quarter mile of 13.3 for the GTO I don't think it would take a whole lot of mods for the GT to match the GTO. But you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. For an average of about $5,000 less and a better looking car I'll take the stang. For the amount of GTO's that were sold last year, I'd be surprised if they are around much longer. Sorry GTO'rs you can fight this one all you want but the S tang is a better overall car.

I guess 93ramvert didn't read the 260-some letters to the editor of C/D magazine vs. 2 letters supporting the Mustang.

It's all personal opinion anyway -- unless stats matter. It's funny how people become so jaded for/against certain brands. I owned a 67 Mustang until 1999 (actually one my wife bought new when she was in med school) and maybe I'm just a bit tired of that same old "retro" styling. Compare performance -- stock -- and compare fit and finish inside and out. Mods don't count because both can be tweaked way beyond stock. The Mustang is cheaper. Does that make it better? I looked at both and drove both, and made my choice.

I'm not jaded against any brand, If you read my very first post you'll see I also drive a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP as well, and I love it, it's my third Grand Prix in 11 years. I also have a 1999 Chevy Venture. They all have there problems. O.k. Your right both can be moded up to beyond stock, I've seen a lot more options for the mustang over the GTO. Your talking letters, I'm talking sales numbers I'm sure Pontiac made millions off of C&D's letters. Say what you want for the retro styling, but the 05 is it's own car, it stands apart from any other Mustang made. I look at the GTO and I see Cavalier, Grand AM, Alero, shall I go on. You can say I'm jaded against a brand, but if I'm driving the brand I'm jaded against you really don't have much room to call me out. I'm not saying the the GTO is a piece, I'm standing up for the Stang. You guy's are bashing the 07 Cobra that hasn't even come out yet, Your bashing 3 or 4 different prices, and horse power ratings that aren't known for sure yet. Your right it's all a matter of opinion, and from sales numbers and from the life of the mustang badge, The mustang has obviuosly out scored the GTO. What's the better car?

Originally posted by 93ramvert@Mar 13 2005, 02:45 PM
but the 05 is it's own car, it stands apart from any other Mustang made
:hysterical:

We...ARE talking about the 2005 Mustang right? With "Retro" styling...meaning it DIRECTLY looks like an old mustang.

Your going to say the Stang is a better overall car, Well if your going off car and driver then it must be do to the obvious "gotta have it factor" that beat the GTO by a whopping 1 point. Which clearly says its a better car.

I dont know anyone who raves about the "quality" interior of the Mustang, where in ciritics have said the GTO has the best interior ever seen in a GM product. Rear seat space/leg room, IRS suspension, 6 speed transmisson.....the list goes on.

As for performance,

400>300

13.0> 13.8

04s have done 13.3 as good driver best stock time, the 05 GM numbers are 13.0, there times for 04 was 14.0.

This is pretty useless though as your never going to win this argument on this board, A I/we believe we are right, and B its a GTO board and you are far outnumbered.

Granted all the Cobra stats are guess work, but were just going off of information we have recieved, and being car guys we know trends, so we make educated guesses on things like price. Which if you look at the numbers of this new cobra, they make sence.

The new Cobra - it will be over priced and over rated just like it always has been.

It is a direct comparisson to the Neon and SRT-4

You are not starting out with a great car - you are just making a cheap car fast and charging a lot more $$ for it.

unlike the Z06 or even the M5 -- both of these already start out on a great car.

I really Don't know about kicking the snot out of the 05 stang. but at a 0-60 of 5.1 sec. and a quarter mile of 13.8 for the Stang, and a 0-60 time of 4.8 sec.

Actually, although no other road tests have acheived this time, but the 0-60 for the 05 GTO is 4.6 seconds. I'd say that kicks the snot out of the 05 stang, even the 04 cobra with 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, so I think we know which is the faster car. Also there aren't as many GTO's produced and expected to sell as the mustang. If there were no V6 mustangs, it's sales numbers would be a lot different.

The mustang has obviuosly out scored the GTO. What's the better car?


GTO

The bogus "Gotta have it" factor was the deciding factor and is obvious to anyone looking at the scoring. So you are unfortunately incorrect here as the GTO outscored the 05 Stang in the other categories added together.

Car and Whiner was simply panning to Ford. It's obvious. Ford will sell more Mustangs, whoopee for them. Sales don't make it a better car, just a better selling car.

Let's not let this one get out of hand, as I don't like where the thread is going.