I have been envolved in a pretty heated discussion with some other people in the know over at www.CamaroZ28.com. If you read the below thread, you see things do not look great for the next GTO. Please read the whole thread, and post feedback here. Also, pay attention to my posts in the thread.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344860

Originally posted by formula79@Feb 28 2005, 09:13 AM
I have been envolved in a pretty heated discussion with some other people in the know over at www.CamaroZ28.com. If you read the below thread, you see things do not look great for the next GTO. Please read the whole thread, and post feedback here. Also, pay attention to my posts in the thread.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344860
Thats due to GM N/A dragging their feet.


I don't know how they are going to catch up with the competition when they delay platforms like this. The Zeta Holdens are out next year!

You've heard the GTO is going to be canceled? FROM WHERE?!

This is true. My insiders have been telling me about this.

The bad news: GM is having a hard time getting the new GTO where they wanted it. So, the program has been canceled. If things pick up and they feel that they can bring it back, they will. Otherwise, its gone.

The good news: The Camaro program is going strong.

Originally posted by nsap@Feb 27 2005, 09:03 PM
The good news: The Camaro program is going strong.
How exactly is that good news? I see no good news in the Camaro coming back without the Trans Am.

So the lack of sales due to -- A non American, dealer mark up, non-hood scoop GTO has killed it for the future!

And GM says to me; and I quote on 3 different occasions "The dealers are a separate entity. We have no control or say in what they do to practice business".

And they also say "We do listen to what people tell us about our cars" --
Who are they listening to, the Japanese? Germans?

Question. What does this possible fact do to the resale value of the car? Anything?

OK I keep getting a cannot find server -- can some one please post the text!

Pure speculation by non-Pontiac forum. If Pontiac wanted to sell more, they'd have to build more (like the F body). Then they'd have to advertise a bit. When was the last GTO ad you saw on TV? Back cover of C/D has one but that's about all. Dealers can't get them, anyway.

This is the car that GM should have been building for years to counter the BMWs. For some reason, there is some mystique about imports. I worked on both domestic and imports, both German and Japanese, and there is no basic difference in durability, fit and finish. As I've said before and elsewhere, where else can you get a rock solid body, excellent fit and finish, 0-60 in the mid 4s, 25 mpg (M6), room for 4 adults, 0.88 on the skidpad, independent suspension, excellent handling and brakes, all for $32,000 and have local GM dealers available to service the car? I passed on the Infiniti G35 because I'd have to drive over 100 miles to get it worked on. Same with the 300HP Acura 4wd coupe at $54,000.

But you gotta build what sells. That's why we have so many FWD 200HP A4 pigs around.

Originally posted by mldavis@Feb 27 2005, 11:18 PM
Pure speculation by non-Pontiac forum. If Pontiac wanted to sell more, they'd have to build more (like the F body). Then they'd have to advertise a bit. When was the last GTO ad you saw on TV? Back cover of C/D has one but that's about all. Dealers can't get them, anyway.

This is the car that GM should have been building for years to counter the BMWs. For some reason, there is some mystique about imports. I worked on both domestic and imports, both German and Japanese, and there is no basic difference in durability, fit and finish. As I've said before and elsewhere, where else can you get a rock solid body, excellent fit and finish, 0-60 in the mid 4s, 25 mpg (M6), room for 4 adults, 0.88 on the skidpad, independent suspension, excellent handling and brakes, all for $32,000 and have local GM dealers available to service the car? I passed on the Infiniti G35 because I'd have to drive over 100 miles to get it worked on. Same with the 300HP Acura 4wd coupe at $54,000.

But you gotta build what sells. That's why we have so many FWD 200HP A4 pigs around.
Not exactly....the 5th gen forum at Camaro Z28.com is a great source for info on all things GM. I frequent it....and in that thread there are posts by one person who writes articles for magazines that many of you have read...

And another poster I know...knows Bob Lutz personally...and that person is essentially confirming it.

It would be a shame if the GTO came and went within just 2 years. Hopefully Pontiac can sell 15,000 05's without resorting to $5,500 rebates etc.

I guess we should have a pretty good idea by July if sales are on target or not.

If GM kills the GTO and makes one more FWD POS I will never buy another car from them again. Looks like cost savings and taking no risks is the ball game at GM. The biggest risk they took was with the GTO, which how I see should have been a low volume car. Especially from a cost stand point and eclusitivty. Does GM realize that the GTO isn't a car for everyone? Do they sell that many CTS V's? I don't want another FWD car...they are useless in my eyes. If the GTO is cancelled Ford or Chrysler just might get my money.....
Whats the halo car going to be? The GXP front drivers? Just because you stuff a V8 in a FWD car, does not make it performance oriented. If you want performance from the future GM you gotta have an MBA, and a $75K a year job I guess.....

I was already thinking of an '06 if they keep the good work up making the car even better. Maybe I'll just keep my '04 if they are history. If they pooched this one I'll be pissed. I really think it's a bunch of BS. Time will tell.

Bloody hell....So this GTO is gonna go down as the '94-'96 Impala SS did, a kick a** car that wasn't appreciated that much during its time, but after its gone is when it becomes a legend...they have to send this car out with a bang and not a thud. Its a **** shame.
Thats just great, so what muscle car will GM be sportin after its gone?? A bunch of V8 torque steer monster fwd w-body's!! Suddenly in a couple years the Mustang is looking better and better and GM will be where it was again in 2003. Thanks GM :drunk:

I find it absolutley disgusting that the GTO would fall in such a short amount of time. I know that the GTO isn't the best looking car out there, but I like it alot more than anything else out of a dealership right now or in the last 30 years. GM needs to invest in advertising and buying some good reveiws from "important" magazines. This news, if it's true, is very depressing.

I refuse to believe it, While there are sources saying the opposite, it doesn't mean it will go through. I can't believe that the car Lutz pushed for would go again, leaving Pontiac with a FWD Grand prix which tops at what 35K being the top model?

Wasn't Pontiac the PERFORMANCE DIVISION?!

Why should Pontiac loose its flagship, just because chevy wants another car.

It just doesn't make sence, not when Buick is getting a car based on the same platform.

I say its mere heresy, I doubt not that the GTO will stay, if not then its like GM is rolling over and dieing to the imports with Pontiac. The image of their comeback will be dead as their flagship is canceled after 3 years of production.

I for one don't believe GM would allow such a thing, they more than anyone know the need of a good image, and killing the GTO would be like changing Caddie commercials to play its hip to be square instead of break free.

I heard that the GTO was originally suppose to be priced around the $25K range, but from the time of devlopement to production the US Dollar went way down, causing the price to go way up.

Not sure if that is true, but I suppose it is.

Production planning is dicey. It takes a couple of years to ramp up from scratch. What happens to oil markets? Will $4 gas kill all of the performance market? What about emissions requirements on a federal level? Lots of things to guess at when planning new models.

Another thing is that there have been many years since the "muscle cars" of the past. New drivers in my part of the country are buying Hemi pickups and 'Stangs if they can afford new ones. Those who can't drive rice rockets. One can only hope that the recent NASCAR craze will help and that over time, these cars become "cool" again in their sophisticated form. The original GTO was a cheap body with a big engine. This Goat is a quiet, tight, solid, slick handling car whose price fits it's level of competence. GM simply must stick it out and let some BMW drivers see what $10-20K less money will get them. If GM can't lure the import buyers back, they won't sell many. But they won't get the showroom traffic unless they do some serious advertising. They spend millions on the G6, why not do a performance ad for the CompG, G6, GTO as a family?

I wrote a review of the '05 for epinions.com. It's how I feel about it. I wish GM was half as enthusiastic about the car as I am. :(

http://www.epinions.com/2005_Pontiac_GTO/d...isplay_~reviews (http://www.epinions.com/2005_Pontiac_GTO/display_~reviews)

This a bunch of bull. If they cancel the GTO, I will no longer buy a GM family product.

I guess it's time for me to start my search again for my next sports car. I am not going to go waste money on a Vette either (sorry, don't want to be a a-hole like some of their owners are becoming, just check out their sites).

What is the future of the Holden Monaro? The current GTO is a rebadge of the Monaro and I believe that both the GTO and Monaro were to be built off of the same Zeta platform. So if GM s****s the GTO, wouldn't the Monaro also likely get s****ped? This seems unlikely. Has there been any good information on the next Monaro design?

Edit: I didn't know that s c r a p is a bad word. :rolleyes:

IMO they should not kill the GTO untill they have a replacement such as a Firebird.
And even then I still don't think should do away with it.
But the market doesn't seem to have a place for the GTO.
I guess GM's market researcher needs to be replaced.
Also IMO the GTO would have been a success if a few things were done differently.
:flush:

Originally posted by pupp1@Feb 28 2005, 02:59 PM
Also IMO the GTO would have been a success if a few things were done differently.
:flush:
YES AND IF GM WOULD HAVE LISTENED! The 2004 would have been a massive hit!

Ok -- count to 10.....9...8.....7........6........5....... :ph34r:

GM needs a better grip on things. Or Toyota will be taking over! They (GM) has everyting it takes to be #1 in the world - they just need to step up!

I'm not buying it. :rolleyes:

When an announcement is made I'll believe it.

From everything I've heard or read GTO will be coming on the Zeta platform. Don't everyone go off in a snit yet.

And don't put this thought out of your mind either. Wouldn't it be good tactic for someone to leak out the "possible" demise of the GTO in order to bump up current sales? Just a thought.

I really didn't see anything concrete in those posts, all conjecture and heresay. Solid irrefutable proof is needed. ;)

I've got mine. I've got it how I like it. If GM wants to stop making the GTO it's their loss. I'll wait for the press release.

The one I want is the one that was built for the Woodward Dream Cruise. Has anyone heard if that car will be auctioned off at Kruse International or anything like that?

just want to say mldavis , i read your review on eopions . great article !!! maybe if the reviews in the auto rags would have been written this objectively , maybe we wouldn't even be talking about the possible demise of the gto ....

Aw, shucks :rolleyes:

This is one beautiful car. Tight, quiet, a BMW beater. It needs some more advertising in the right places. The C/D back cover just shows a Phantom Black at speed with 400HP at the top. What does that say to the Bimmer drivers? Kids car. If you could get a BMW owner into one of these, they'd love it, unless they think their logo is worth ten G's. It's a bit upscale for drag racers and a bit pricey for youngsters with families. The target market doesn't seem to be getting the info on the car. What is Pontiac doing about it? Heck, they ought to pay me for writing their review. I love my '05. Everyone who sees it comments on it. But few really know what it is, just that it looks nice and the seats are cool. Cut the hot rod advertising and sell it for what it is. The LS2 just happens to come with it. :angry:

I have just one point. Why would this information be leaked out before hardly 1k units of the 05' GTO have been purchased? Now that this speculation is out, GM is going to have to come up with some wicked incentives to buy a vehicle that will be out of circulation. This makes no sense to me. Bring back a legend half a$$ed and you get half a$$ed sales. Take the time and money to make suggested improvements and then dump the project? I love my car. I totally hate GM's marketing. They could have asked my daughter, my wife, and I to do a better job with an ad design or commercial. $hit! My 20 month old daughter knows all her animal sounds. "What does a cow say?" "MOOO" "What does a kitty say?" "Meow!" "What does a goat say?" "VRRRRRROOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!" It will be a rough preschool year, but she could market the car better then GM!

Originally posted by jimshep@Mar 1 2005, 02:57 AM
What is the future of the Holden Monaro? The current GTO is a rebadge of the Monaro and I believe that both the GTO and Monaro were to be built off of the same Zeta platform. So if GM s****s the GTO, wouldn't the Monaro also likely get s****ped? This seems unlikely. Has there been any good information on the next Monaro design?

Edit: I didn't know that s c r a p is a bad word. :rolleyes:
Zeta Holdens are out next year, it would be up to Holden in they wanted to produce a 2-door Zeta

Hey, i have some information for you... The GTO is going to be here for so many year, GM have good plan for the new 2007 GTO, wait to see that one...
Have a good day...

Wow ever since the demise of the Fbody alot of people are hard on slow selling GM cars. The GTO is only a limted run of years anyway. GM planned on it that way. THe figured it would take 2-3 years for the GTO platform to really hit stride. They did not by anymeans rush into the GTO and just throw it out there. Its a nitch market vehical. Those who really want one, will go get one. GM knows this. You cant compare the GTO to the Fbodies they arent the same or marketed as the same. Id bet all my cars that the GTO stays around for the duration of GM plan from day one for it.

The GTO isn't going anywhere.

Right now sales are flurishing. They are building roughly 12,500 GTOs this year and at this pace.. they could sell 22,000! Also, we haven't even hit the spring and summer months!

The GTO is here for awhile. I mean, s***, the Aztec lasted how long?

The GTO is here for awhile. I mean, s***, the Aztec lasted how long?

LOL, way too long :D

Originally posted by JohnnyZ28@Mar 1 2005, 06:53 PM
The GTO isn't going anywhere.

Right now sales are flurishing. They are building roughly 12,500 GTOs this year and at this pace.. they could sell 22,000! Also, we haven't even hit the spring and summer months!

The GTO is here for awhile. I mean, s***, the Aztec lasted how long?
"At this pace they could sell 22,000"?!?!?! Where did you get that number?

In January they sold 898 and in February they sold 988. That's less than a 1000 a month. Now, I understand sales will probably pick up as we get into spring and summer and they start to have incentives, but I don't believe we would get anywhere close to selling that number even if the number produced wasn't limited.

My guess in 15,000 is a good estimate (assuming we see incentives like we did late last year).

As a reference, they sold 14,000 Mustang's in February alone. Even if you take out the V-6s you can see that the GTO is still a dud as far as sales are concerned. (Please don't go into how the GTO and the Mustang don't compete. The General isn't hiding the fact that they are disappointed by GTOs slow sales.)

Steve

The GTO is only making 12,000 a year, so 800-900 a month is right on target.

If you have your GTO already there is no problem if they dump them. This car will end up being one of the legends like the 1986 + 1987 Buick Grand Nationals. They made 5.5k's 1986 GN's and around 20K's 1987 GN's then end of life.
The GTO would end up will just a few K higher total Production.

19 years ago no one knew or cared that I was driving a GN. Now I can't leave the house without getting thumbs up from kids to Grannies.
And we will always be able to get parts for our LS2 and Tranny. Now body parts may be a different story 19 years from now.

19 years from now, the $25/gal of premium gas will be more of a problem than the sheet-metal. That's assuming we survive a constant diet of nothing but government surplus cheese. :rolleyes:

19 years from now my nose will be dripping snot on my chin in a old folks home. My only worry will be if my kids can sneak me in some beer and cigarettes. My GN will be used as a planter for shrubs and we will all be speaking Mexican. The only hunting you will be able to do will be with a flyswatter cause guns will be banned.
Man I am going to beat all my cars to death cause what is the use of saving them?
:woot:

Originally posted by nsap@Feb 28 2005, 02:03 AM
This is true. My insiders have been telling me about this.

The bad news: GM is having a hard time getting the new GTO where they wanted it. So, the program has been canceled. If things pick up and they feel that they can bring it back, they will. Otherwise, its gone.

The good news: The Camaro program is going strong.
Who told you that BS. LOL!!

So let me see.... The GTO is cancelled, Pontiac's halo car. But the Chevy RWD, V8 Camaro is a go? On what platform? Sigma, Kappa, Zeta.


Until GM "Officially" cancels the GTO, the 07 GTO is a go according to my contact at Holden.

OK OK OK OK -- I do not have the article in front of me but in (I think it was Hot Rod?)

The guy in the magazine said that the Dormant plant in Delaware is currently being re-furbished to house the new 2007 GTO and Camaro -- anyone seen this article?


Supposedly the guy is very reputable
.

Originally posted by salbracht@Mar 1 2005, 04:39 PM


My guess in 15,000 is a good estimate (assuming we see incentives like we did late last year).


I was having coffee with Bob Lutz and Elvis. The're both good friends.
Lutz told Elvis he was going to stick it to Ford this year and build 22,001 GTO's.
He also said that there would be no Camaro until 2011.


:tongue:


I love how every one else is in the know. I hope they are all rich over at the camaroforums from all that insider trading.

Originally posted by TheJizzer@Mar 3 2005, 01:00 AM
OK OK OK OK -- I do not have the article in front of me but in (I think it was Hot Rod?)

The guy in the magazine said that the Dormant plant in Delaware is currently being re-furbished to house the new 2007 GTO and Camaro -- anyone seen this article?


Supposedly the guy is very reputable
.
Sure. :rolleyes:

Which plant in Delaware? The Wilmington plant? That plant I believe is building the Pontiac Sostice. The GTO will most likely be built at the Hammatrk (sp) facility in Mich.

:( I would honestly bye a GTO but two things must happen:

1) Give it character, changing the nose on the Monaro and then calling it a GTO is not going to fly!!!

2) The trunk space is a major issue.

Originally posted by nikivee+Mar 3 2005, 10:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nikivee @ Mar 3 2005, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheJizzer@Mar 3 2005, 01:00 AM
OK OK OK OK -- I do not have the article in front of me but in (I think it was Hot Rod?)

The guy in the magazine said that the Dormant plant in Delaware is currently being re-furbished to house the new 2007 GTO and Camaro -- anyone seen this article?


Supposedly the guy is very reputable
.
Sure. :rolleyes:

Which plant in Delaware? The Wilmington plant? That plant I believe is building the Pontiac Sostice. The GTO will most likely be built at the Hammatrk (sp) facility in Mich. [/b][/quote]
Nothing is official ,but, there's plenty of talk at the plant that the GTO, Camaro and another vehicle will be built here, along with the Kappas. Just waiting for approval. Think it was originally set for Det - Ham and was changed to Wilmington Assembly.

Originally posted by callie+Mar 3 2005, 03:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (callie @ Mar 3 2005, 03:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by nikivee@Mar 3 2005, 10:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJizzer@Mar 3 2005, 01:00 AM
OK OK OK OK -- I do not have the article in front of me but in (I think it was Hot Rod?)

The guy in the magazine said that the Dormant plant in Delaware is currently being re-furbished to house the new 2007 GTO and Camaro -- anyone seen this article?


Supposedly the guy is very reputable
.
Sure. :rolleyes:

Which plant in Delaware? The Wilmington plant? That plant I believe is building the Pontiac Sostice. The GTO will most likely be built at the Hammatrk (sp) facility in Mich.
Nothing is official ,but, there's plenty of talk at the plant that the GTO, Camaro and another vehicle will be built here, along with the Kappas. Just waiting for approval. Think it was originally set for Det - Ham and was changed to Wilmington Assembly. [/b][/quote]
Again, I am just going by the guy in the article.

Originally posted by TheJizzer+Mar 3 2005, 03:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheJizzer @ Mar 3 2005, 03:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by callie@Mar 3 2005, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by nikivee@Mar 3 2005, 10:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJizzer@Mar 3 2005, 01:00 AM
OK OK OK OK -- I do not have the article in front of me but in (I think it was Hot Rod?)

The guy in the magazine said that the Dormant plant in Delaware is currently being re-furbished to house the new 2007 GTO and Camaro -- anyone seen this article?


Supposedly the guy is very reputable
.
Sure. :rolleyes:

Which plant in Delaware? The Wilmington plant? That plant I believe is building the Pontiac Sostice. The GTO will most likely be built at the Hammatrk (sp) facility in Mich.
Nothing is official ,but, there's plenty of talk at the plant that the GTO, Camaro and another vehicle will be built here, along with the Kappas. Just waiting for approval. Think it was originally set for Det - Ham and was changed to Wilmington Assembly.
Again, I am just going by the guy in the article. [/b][/quote]
Hey, I believe you!

Originally posted by callie+Mar 3 2005, 03:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (callie @ Mar 3 2005, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by TheJizzer@Mar 3 2005, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by callie@Mar 3 2005, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by nikivee@Mar 3 2005, 10:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJizzer@Mar 3 2005, 01:00 AM
OK OK OK OK -- I do not have the article in front of me but in (I think it was Hot Rod?)

The guy in the magazine said that the Dormant plant in Delaware is currently being re-furbished to house the new 2007 GTO and Camaro -- anyone seen this article?


Supposedly the guy is very reputable
.
Sure. :rolleyes:

Which plant in Delaware? The Wilmington plant? That plant I believe is building the Pontiac Sostice. The GTO will most likely be built at the Hammatrk (sp) facility in Mich.
Nothing is official ,but, there's plenty of talk at the plant that the GTO, Camaro and another vehicle will be built here, along with the Kappas. Just waiting for approval. Think it was originally set for Det - Ham and was changed to Wilmington Assembly.
Again, I am just going by the guy in the article.
Hey, I believe you! [/b][/quote]
:friday:

The decision to cut the next GTO would be a GM North America decision. After the cy=urrent V-Car Holden goes away...Holden washes their hands of the car. A Buick sedan will take up the GTO's production.

That being said, someone on the factory line at Holden, or even in Holden's managment may not know about the GTO decision.

Until I hear it from GM, I refuse to believe it. If it does happen, I will be extremely disappointed.

Bob Lutz is gonna be at my GM plant next week (3/05) and I am gonna ask him face to face what the deal is. I'll get back with ya'all.

05 impulse blue/blue interior :beer: I have my GTO. Let them cancel. Ten years from now people will be getting them in auctions for twice what they go for now. Everywhere I go, people comment on my car. I have never had so many people (and hotties) tell me how much they love my car. My friend has a C5 vette. Silver with Chrome stock 18"s. No one ever stops us in his car and says wow. I mean it's a vette so it is a hot car, but just so many of them. Let the 05 be the new classic!

I've got an 05 gto automatic, silver, with black leather. I've been told 06 is the last year and no changes will be made. 400 H.P. is a steal for 34K, get real so get one ASAP.I traded an 03 svt cobra. I love the gto, its the fastest car for the money!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit by Nocturn for typos.

*sighs* Well IF indeed this is true, then it looks like an '07 Cobra will be in my garage! **** it GM, you are making me do this, now I have to go to the darkside. :ph34r:
Was planning on geting an '05 but needed a roof over my head. Then, was going to wait until '06-'07 ****it!!!! This is :bs: if it is
true........................................

I have had my 04 since mid december and have been loving every minute of it(except for when it was in the shop for a month cause of that stinkin fuel gage issue... anywho), my 05 that i have ordered is out of production and awaiting the boat ride over here. I have been waiting for it since i bought my 04. Even with my 04 I get heads turnin everywhere I go, I cant even begin to imagine what kind of attention I will be getting when I start driving her... soon to be owner of 05 Cyclone Grey M6 GTO.... WHOO HOO!!!! CANT WAIT! :woot: :friday:

Originally posted by DEICHEVY@Mar 8 2005, 11:17 AM
Bob Lutz is gonna be at my GM plant next week (3/05) and I am gonna ask him face to face what the deal is. I'll get back with ya'all.
Well......... were waitnig.
I think I will get one the day after GM decides to announce it to the public.
:mellow:

I don't see any decline down here in the south in sales. I have talked with 10 Pontiac dealers in GA, FL, SCA, NCA, TN. Nobody can get them quick enought. Shoot my dealer just bought 4 from a dealer in NY, 5 from one in Maine. They just need to think where they are sending them. It is hard to get a high preformance muscle car to sell in the dead of winter in the north. :angry:

Originally posted by 93ramvert@Mar 14 2005, 12:02 PM
:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: To funny.
Goodbye GTO, The car is dull looking. I'm a former 75 Z28 Owner that now wouldn't be without a Mustang. The only thing I can say is, the only car that could possibly get me out of a Mustang is the Camaro. Hopefully they'll have some type of concept out by the time the 07 Cobra comes to light.
What's your purpose of trolling here? You scared of what monster Goat is going to stomp you next? :jumpon:

Originally posted by 93ramvert@Mar 14 2005, 01:02 PM
I'm a former 75 Z28 Owner that now wouldn't be without a Mustang.
There is the problem -- DUDE Let go of the past...

Originally posted by 93ramvert@Mar 14 2005, 12:02 PM
:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: To funny.
Goodbye GTO, The car is dull looking. I'm a former 75 Z28 Owner that now wouldn't be without a Mustang. The only thing I can say is, the only car that could possibly get me out of a Mustang is the Camaro. Hopefully they'll have some type of concept out by the time the 07 Cobra comes to light.
I'v had enough of your nonsence, NO POST FOR YOU.

Originally posted by nikivee+Mar 2 2005, 07:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nikivee @ Mar 2 2005, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nsap@Feb 28 2005, 02:03 AM
This is true. My insiders have been telling me about this.

The bad news: GM is having a hard time getting the new GTO where they wanted it. So, the program has been canceled. If things pick up and they feel that they can bring it back, they will. Otherwise, its gone.

The good news: The Camaro program is going strong.
Who told you that BS. LOL!!

So let me see.... The GTO is cancelled, Pontiac's halo car. But the Chevy RWD, V8 Camaro is a go? On what platform? Sigma, Kappa, Zeta.


Until GM "Officially" cancels the GTO, the 07 GTO is a go according to my contact at Holden. [/b][/quote]
it would be hepful to know what you have heard as i took advantage of the strong programs on the 04 gto hopefully turning that in and getting a 06 if i did not like the 07 when the smart buy is up. the turn in date is dec.06. i was hoping that they would have a judge package with maybe a 450hp engine in it and this car would be a purchase to own for years to come. i myself like the extra bling with the apperance package but thats just me. i guess we all have to hold our breathe and hope. i was watching the autoline detroit program last week on speed vision and they had a higher up figure from gm and he said that if he told anyone what they had planned for 06 he would have to kill them so it looks like there is still hope. i do not want to go to a 4dr muscle car. i like the size of the current goat.

I think now the proper term to use would be "the GTO's future is being reexamined"...meaning it may not end up on Zeta. There is a lot of conjecture out there now...

I think its a big sceam

Originally posted by formula79@Mar 14 2005, 06:26 PM
I think now the proper term to use would be "the GTO's future is being reexamined"...meaning it may not end up on Zeta. There is a lot of conjecture out there now...
<_< Intersesting....... :type:

I was doing a locate at the Pontiac dealer I work at today. I noticed that GM loaded the 2006 information and much to my disapointment found that the GTO is not listed. They have the Sostice,Torrent even the G6 convert that keeps being pushed farther back all with model numbers,but -NO- GTO!
Right now I don't know if I am mad,angry,disapointed,confused or all of the above.
We have had no problem selling GTO's last year and the floor traffic for the '05 has been outstanding. Currently we get more people inquiring about GTO then any other poor excuse of a Pontiac that we sell.
I have seen GM tell the dealers with there straight face nothing to worry about with rumers only to see months later the announcement. I saw it with Fiero,Firebird,Bonneville...

So let me get this straight:
-GM is dropping the GTO after the 05 model year for good
-There will be a Camaro but without a Pontiac counterpart
-They will not bring back the GTO even with the added sister cars that are required for the GTO to remain alive.

I cannot say that I am happy. I cant say I am pretty pissed. What happened to "the GTO is here to stay"? Please please correct me if I am wrong or missed something. I really cant take GM killing off another muscle car. They better bring it back with some sisters. Hopefully a Camaro and possibly the CTS coupe.

Whoooooooaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

There will be an 06 GTO. Just because it hasn't shown up yet on the ordering guide or whatever doesn't mean it won't be there. Many 06 vehicles won't be on there yet, it's still to early.

Remember all of this is ALL speculation at this point. :)

Originally posted by YellowGoatNick@Mar 16 2005, 09:13 PM
So let me get this straight:
-GM is dropping the GTO after the 05 model year for good
-There will be a Camaro but without a Pontiac counterpart
-They will not bring back the GTO even with the added sister cars that are required for the GTO to remain alive.

I cannot say that I am happy. I cant say I am pretty pissed. What happened to "the GTO is here to stay"? Please please correct me if I am wrong or missed something. I really cant take GM killing off another muscle car. They better bring it back with some sisters. Hopefully a Camaro and possibly the CTS coupe.
No,

The GTO will have an 06 model year, but there are RUMORS as to the 2007 MY not being made.

The Camaro will return without a Pontiac counterpart

If the GTO continues it may or may not share platforms (most likely would) with 2 other cars.

The CTS coupe will debute with the enxt generation CTS in 2007 MY.

Has anyone heard any news on the 06 Manoro

maybe it will give some hints about the 06 GTO

maybe GM is going to change something for 06 and want to keep it under wraps

because if you let the news out to early, a lot of people might what till 06 to buy a GTO

and then you will have a lot of 05s not being sold

Well the main thing about the lack of info on the GTO is because its on the Aussie build schedule, they are made in winter there for summer there, but shipped here in the winter/there summer. So while the 06 Pontiacs get here for OUR schedule, the GTO will arrive later on than the rest of the lineup because of this.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Zero4@Mar 16 2005, 10:43 PM
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight :rolleyes:
No, really its because Pontiac wants to launch its flagship RWD V8 coupe in the middle of winter because its such a hot selling time for sports cars. :rolleyes:

The GTO is a bit out of step with the usual US model release. My dealer pre-ordered his 05's in June 04 before there were even any spec sheets available on options. The car first appeared in Jan 05 and his came in Feb 05. If they run the 05s through December as they did the 04s, GM won't have the 06 specs on the computer yet, even though they put the other models online for the upcoming model year.

first time writer here

i had to throw my 2 cents in cause this is my car i have always loved the gto back around the days of the judge. i will admit that i own a rice burn now, but when i decided that it was time to buy a new car i started looking the only car out there that i even like is the new goat, i think it a well refined vechile great price and i think it has the potental to be akick a** car in looks its already got the drive train.
here what i see is part of the problem i have been to 4 dealer ships in my area and even time i walk in the sales people swarm the mintue i ask if they have a gto they get long faces and walk if i'm lucky to get one to hang around and ask some questions they won't look me in the eye they hem haw and they don't know ****. i actually had to walk to the back to the service dept and talk to one of the head guys who owns a goat to get any kind of info. the other thing that bothers me was if there was one there it was an automatic and if i wanted to drive i had to put down a non refundable $1000 dollar deposit if yoou decide you don't want the car you can put toward another vechical of your choice. this is the most retarted thing i have ever heard if i'm on the fence about buying this car because frankly i have never driven that much power and i want to make sure that its right for me, the sales people have just forced me into not wanting to buy the car. go to bmw, chrysler,ford and car manufacturer and they are not going to give you deposit **** personaly, on this experiance i wouldn't buy it, but its the only vehical on the market right now that interests me and i will be getting one soon. if other people of had this same experiance though i can see why sales are down. :angry:

Welcome to the board and don't despair.

May I suggest talking to Jason F. at Sewell our featured dealer. Just post a query in the Ask The Dealer Forum and he may be able to help you out. You won't get any of the BS and he is VERY knowledgeble.

Just a thought. Don't give up. :)

Hmmm... My dealer called me on the phone asking me to come drive the 04 and I turned him down until he got an 04 M6, then turned that down. When the 05 came out he knew I'd bite on an IBM/Blue M6 and he called me before the car touched the ground. No deposit, no nothing, although he did go with me on the test drive. I walked away without saying a thing, called him that night and told him to pull the keys. But then I've bought 4 Pontiacs from the same guy now.

Originally posted by mldavis@Mar 17 2005, 08:10 PM
Hmmm... My dealer called me on the phone asking me to come drive the 04 and I turned him down until he got an 04 M6, then turned that down. When the 05 came out he knew I'd bite on an IBM/Blue M6 and he called me before the car touched the ground. No deposit, no nothing, although he did go with me on the test drive. I walked away without saying a thing, called him that night and told him to pull the keys. But then I've bought 4 Pontiacs from the same guy now.
It's great you found a decent dealer. Almost all the ones that are in my area are sleeze bags.

Unfortunately, Pontiac can't do much about what dealers do to the public. They can gripe and they can refuse to send them cars that they want before they sell tons of G6s and such.

I just got a 2nd call this evening from Pontiac asking questions about my 05 and how I like it. I told them to go read my epinions review and then call me back.

Don't blame Pontiac or GM for sleazy dealers. They are independent contractors. :angry:

I got a survey from Pontiac a few weeks after I got my GTO

I never filled it out

So then a few weeks ago I got a nother survay, still have not filled it out

Maybe that is why they are killing off the GTO, I didn't fill out the survay


Shame on me

I killed the GTO

Originally posted by Nocturn+Mar 16 2005, 10:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nocturn @ Mar 16 2005, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-YellowGoatNick@Mar 16 2005, 09:13 PM
So let me get this straight:
-GM is dropping the GTO after the 05 model year for good
-There will be a Camaro but without a Pontiac counterpart
-They will not bring back the GTO even with the added sister cars that are required for the GTO to remain alive.

I cannot say that I am happy. I cant say I am pretty pissed. What happened to "the GTO is here to stay"? Please please correct me if I am wrong or missed something. I really cant take GM killing off another muscle car. They better bring it back with some sisters. Hopefully a Camaro and possibly the CTS coupe.
No,

The GTO will have an 06 model year, but there are RUMORS as to the 2007 MY not being made.

The Camaro will return without a Pontiac counterpart

If the GTO continues it may or may not share platforms (most likely would) with 2 other cars.

The CTS coupe will debute with the enxt generation CTS in 2007 MY. [/b][/quote]
So the 06 may be the last year, they might bring the GTO back after they release the camaro.

Originally posted by Zero4@Mar 17 2005, 11:26 PM
I got a survey from Pontiac a few weeks after I got my GTO

I never filled it out

So then a few weeks ago I got a nother survay, still have not filled it out

Maybe that is why they are killing off the GTO, I didn't fill out the survay


Shame on me

I killed the GTO
Goat Killer!

Wait till PETA finds out!

Originally posted by YellowGoatNick+Mar 18 2005, 02:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YellowGoatNick @ Mar 18 2005, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nocturn@Mar 16 2005, 10:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-YellowGoatNick@Mar 16 2005, 09:13 PM
So let me get this straight:
-GM is dropping the GTO after the 05 model year for good
-There will be a Camaro but without a Pontiac counterpart
-They will not bring back the GTO even with the added sister cars that are required for the GTO to remain alive.

I cannot say that I am happy. I cant say I am pretty pissed. What happened to "the GTO is here to stay"? Please please correct me if I am wrong or missed something. I really cant take GM killing off another muscle car. They better bring it back with some sisters. Hopefully a Camaro and possibly the CTS coupe.
No,

The GTO will have an 06 model year, but there are RUMORS as to the 2007 MY not being made.

The Camaro will return without a Pontiac counterpart

If the GTO continues it may or may not share platforms (most likely would) with 2 other cars.

The CTS coupe will debute with the enxt generation CTS in 2007 MY.
So the 06 may be the last year, they might bring the GTO back after they release the camaro. [/b][/quote]
Ehh sorta, the Camaro is comming out regardless of the GTO.

The GTO is supposed to be on the Zeta platform, but that is still up to debate. The Camaro will come out possibly on the Zeta but its not likely. The Maro is independant of the GTO, but the GTO platform was supposed to be used for 2 other GM cars, a buick, and a second chevy.

The rumor is that 06 will be the last model year as the 07s wont be made. I for one believe it is a leak to find a possible mole, or to stir up internet boards, also could be to push 04/05 sales.

Well,it would be total bummer if they kill the GTO, but you have to admit the whole program wasn't exactly executed very well. Especially the greedy a** dealers turning so many people off from the start. It was destined to happen. This may sound a little crazy, but I wish they would have imported the Commodore SS as well. 2 door coupes are cool, but for family men like myself, Sedans are more practical. The CTSV is a totally awsome example of what would be my perfect car, but a little out of my ideal price range. The Commodore would have been the perfect fit for me and a great support vehicle for the GTO's. Just my $0.2.

That is why A LOT of people said they should have done the New (2004-2205) Grand Prix in a 2 door and RWD and called it GTO. I am not saying it would have been possible to make the platform RWD or add a LS1-2 into it but that seems to be a very popular concensus. I bet they would have sold the heck out of them.

Talk about marketing? Went to the Ft. Lauderdale Auto Show just last weekend, expecting to see my brand new GTO spot lighted and instead saw all the competitors in the lime light! Ford's Mustang up on the platform, Dodge's new Charger (that's not even out yet) all up there with spokesmodels and where was Pontiac's new 400 HP GTO? In the back, on the floor mixed in with all the other "ordinary" models.

No promotion--like a slap in the face to all who are hipped about there new ride! Don't get me wrong, I'm crazy for my new goat, but it sure didn't look good for the future without much promotion.

I guess I will throw in my 2 cents.

The GTO is a great car. I love mine and I made the right choice in buying the GTO over the Mustang.

The reason why I think they might do away with the car or not build it for a few years is GM's fault. There marketing and their ****y aditude is why car sales are down. When the car first came out I went to go see one. The dealer ship wouldn't even let me drive one. I can understand that because I was 17. My dad was also their with me and he has bought 5 GM cars in the last 2 years. Including a Corvette. They wouldn't even let him drive the car. The dealer wanted over sticker for the car and that made me mad. My dad said they would be giving them away in a year. Sure enough. 1 year later had 15 GTOs and no one was buying them. I didn't get mine from that dealer. I am sure that other people had the same experience when the car first came out. But I saved all of my money for a year and now I have one. I know everybody says that the exterior is not the best looking, but when you take off from a stop light with the LS1 under the hood who cares what is on the outside. The interior is far better than most sport cars and the car is fast. I think GM should continue to make the car. What they should do is change their aditude and marketing.

Well unfortunately that is the dealer, and GM can't control them. If your lucky you can find a dealer who isn't so greedy.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Apr 4 2005, 01:50 PM
Well unfortunately that is the dealer, and GM can't control them. If your lucky you can find a dealer who isn't so greedy.
My earlier point exactly -- GM Needs to take a bit more contorl of its dealers. Even if that means taking over sales for the dealers. I think GM sould have there own show rooms/service departments...If there was one in Maryland I would drive there to get my car. And I bet it would push the other dealers to act a bit better.

I have to admit, I'll be very disappointed if they discontinue the GTO. I love my 2004 (except it didn't have 2 scoops, so they did listen to that complaint, but I want it functional). What I didn't like was when the G6 came out, it looked like the 4 door version of the GTO practically. Like the Honda 4 door accord to the Honda accord Coupe. They look slightly different. I really don't like feeling like people will look at my car and thing its a G6.

GM is trying to move Poncho upmarket, which means we will most likely loose all the names of the cars, in favor of a G6, G8, type nameing fashion. I for one hate and despise this as it leaves the cars with no soul. But I digress...

GM has good dealers, just head to a Saturn dealer, wonderfull dealers, they just need to get their other brands to addapt. (won't happen though, There is a chevy dealer in TX wanting 80K for a black convertible C6).

Anyone want to invest in a sports car dealership with no haggle pricing.

There can only be three posible scenarios to the nes that the zeta platform has been cancelled. One, the GTO will continue as the platfrom mate to the next Camaro.....That makes the most sense. The worst case-GM doesn't value the GTO enough to continue it on any platform, and making it history suits their a$$-backwards bottom line. With the coupe market deader than the Pope,and first-year sales failling expectations,the likelihood of a cancellation is pretty high.Add to that no official word on the future of the GTO from GM, and there's cause for concern. If the worst happens, they can look forward to me buying their cars on used-car lots , as I will never contribute a red cent to the stone-cold stupid bureaucrocracy that apparently still controls the Genaral. :jumpon: While I'm hopeful for a future for our beloved Goat, we still must remember what we're dealing with . This is the same company that seriously considered killing the C5 Corvette. Lets hope lightning doesn't strike twice against the GTO. :huh:

Well Zeta hasn't been cancelled, its still being used in AUS for their next generation of cars, which means its just postponned here.

And I can't recall GM ever thinking about cancelling the C5, it has always been a good selling car.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Apr 5 2005, 03:42 PM
Well Zeta hasn't been cancelled, its still being used in AUS for their next generation of cars, which means its just postponned here.

And I can't recall GM ever thinking about cancelling the C5, it has always been a good selling car.
I thought the C5 almost didn't happen? Wasn't there alot of GM inside politics to keep it alive?

Canceled GTO or not as long as someone has a car that fits me.
Alot of HP, manual transmission, IRS and nice interior for less than 40k. I will be buying something in 3 to 5 years. Guess I'll have to wait and see who will be making it.

Patrick

This stuff about Pontiac killing the GTO sounds like somthing Ford would be spreading around. I sent Pontiac's Marketing Dept. an e-mail asking if there was any truth to the rumor. I was totaly suprised when they phoned me today.

There response to the killl of rumor was that no announcement had been made by Pontiac or GM to stop production of the GTO, and that the 2006 model is scheduled to go into production on 8/24/05. The question remains, can we believe them. They gave me this number to call if I had more questions. It operates 24/7 and I think all GTO lovers should call and voice your displeasure with the idea of killing of the GOAT again.

1-800-762-2737 call now to SAVE the GTO!

I think the question wasn't if they were going to kill the current GTO, I dont think anyone doubted an 06, but if the next generation will be built.

No one can be 100% sure what will happen with the new GTO. But here's the way I see it all..................

Fact is, its just not popular enough. When people think GTO they see a bright orange dramatic muscle car, with a thumping V8 big block and super flashy appearance.

In 2004 Pontiac released a GTO very subtle in appearance, and not nearly as dramatic as former self.
Granted they tried really hard to make it fast, which it is, but its not a iconic as its former self.
If someone is going to pay 34K for a car, the average person wants a good appearance, power, and quality.
The GTO has everything but appearance, compare it to the MACH 1 mustang, about the same price
The GTO easily walks all over the mustang in all areas, easily. But that appearance plays a 2/3rds majority roll. So the mustang wins in the end.
The F-Bodies, sure they were a little to pricey for there quality but they had that image...............even if you didnt buy one, it turned heads and stood out, maybe a little to much but so what, thats what they're for.

How else does a 2005 300HP cheap Mustang GT, defeat a 2005 400HP top notch world class car GTO..............the answer is simply looks.

Maybe if this sport appearance package came with the 2004 it would've helped the overall image. After the 04's dropped the ball (accept it, thats just the way it is) the 2005's increased power, appearance mods, and scoops......just seem like the usual cladding of pontiac to improve sales to a dying car.

Regardless of all that, the GTO is a great car.
Will I buy one? NO
I paid enough, and Im happy with my Firehawk.

I predict the GTO will live to atleast one redesign on the new buick platform, but I think the Camaro will overshadow it, even if it is a second place car.
The GTO just didn't come on hard enough, they sorta overcorrected the F-Bodies mistakes in 1993-2002, a little to subtle, a little to large.

I think the best thing Pontiac could do right now with the GTO is wait for a redesign, avoid an all out retro like the mustang, but give it enough to be recognized. Give it a lot more options, cloth interior, less sound system, more gear combos, spoiler delete, engine options, and of course the all important Orange paint job with the High rise spoiler and flamboyant stripe and the name The Judge as the top of the line GTO. They need to do something or some things to make a cheaper GTO that still packs the V8 punch, once again I go back to fords approach with the Mustang. But they need to steer in the opposite direction of Dodge's disgrace to the Charger.

Dont get me wrong, I love the new GTO's, but not enough

And still the name Firebird would be Pontiac best way out of this drastic slump.
Cause if you aint heard
In Oldsmobiles quake
the next one gone is between pontiac and buick.......................

While those are some valid points, the error is in the competition. Your argument works if the GTO were meant to go up against the Mustang, which it isn't. The GTO was meant to be put up against the M3, CL55 (I think, dont know my MBs), and other various imports, and compared to them its a hell of a bargain and a great car, no one thinks the M3 is to bland because of its market. The GTO is meant to go for that same market, but because of its name it gets dragged into being compared with the cheaper end of the sports cars like the Mustang and the Charger when thats really not what it was meant to be compared to.

True 04s were slow on sales, but 05s are having 80% higher sales and without having to use rebates, so I think Pontiac just needed to get the word out a bit, which they have. I think they need to stick with the imported Monaro untill the US gets their version of Zeta on the way. When they do a redesign I think they can go a bit more agressive but need to stay classy with it, much like Cadillac has done. If they go to flamboyant they will lose the audiance they want, and at the current MSRP, they will also lose those who like its new boy racer image. No engine options either, making a cheaper V6 version of the car only goes to hurt its image as a performance car.

Nocturn is right about who the GTO is supposed to be in competition with. However it does not matter that it is not supposed to be thought of in the same class as the Mustang, the fact of the matter is that IT IS put in the same class by everyone including GM by the way they have marketed it. The 2 main commercials put out for the 2004 GTO were #1: a garage door opens on a Grand Prix, then another opens for another Pontiac, and then all you hear is a car's exhaust and then a GTO power slides around in the driveway and backs into the third garage opening. then #2 commercial: you see a GTO sit through a green light waiting for another car to show up so that it can blow it away. Now if anything about those commercials say anything about refinement, ride comfort, outstanding interior, or anything other ponycar/Trans AM replacement.

Therefore, Firehawk's comments were all extremely valid due to the fact that we live in the real world where the GTO is the perceived as the F-body replacement against the Mustang and not in the ideal/theoretical world where the GTO is in competition with the Lexus/BMW/Benz.

The 05 sales numbers have increased but they are still under the 1,000 a month that they are trying to sell. Of course I am in heavy negotations with the wife to add one more to the GTO owners club. (wish me luck)

Go to GMs blog site. The sales of the GTO have increased beyond their expected sales number for March '05 and they expect a fairly decent month for April. Cali was something like 30% of the sales, as it should be. The GTO was an image car that was popularized by the surf and drag sounds of the early 1960s. Plus with our better weather, it only makes sense. Mustang Sally will be buying a GTO when it starts falling apart in two years or less as well. GTO sales will also go higher when a refreshed design takes place (expect aggressive lines). There is talk of taking a design posted on a GTO enthusiasts website that brings back the stacked headlight arrangement, the mean looking front end of the 66-67 GTO along with the coke bottle contouring. A refreshening should take place every two years at least. We had one minor one for '05 and it looks great with the dual exhausts, etc. GM has the performance and its a world class car, we just need more aggressive angry looks to the body style and its on the way. So no the GTO is NOT going away and neither is Pontiac. :afro:

Well in that second ad, the car that pulls up is a BMW 3 series.....

I think some people just need to stop comparing past apples to new apples, and start comparing oranges to oranges.

Yes, it doesn't matter if the GTO is intended to compete with BMW, the fact is it doesn't

It competes with the Mustang..........wakeup

People loved the F-Bodies.

They were americas car for well pretty much ever since 1967

The GTO will be viewed as the F-body replacement since it came out as the first sports car since the disappearance of the Firebird and Camaro

I see a GTO based on American design in 2007, but I see that GTO living in the Shadow of the new Camaro.

Doesnt matter what you say but the Camaro is more recognized by the new era.
GTO is a legendary name, but as I said when people think of it they see a screaming orange 1969 Judge roaring down an open road.

Nocturn dont be ignorant, fact is GTO will lose to the 05 Stang solely on appearance basis.
What happens happens, try as you might the GTO is losing out to the Mustang not the BMW, if Pontiac grasped this fact and made the GTO a cheaper car with more options I think they'd have a real winner. But as it is Everybody wants the stylish 2005 GT (which is a **** nice car) for 26K.

And another fact, anyone wanting the German built BMW, will buy the **** BMW because its a BMW, the GTO has no business on the same magazine page. Im not saying the BMW is better, just saying BMW is in its own world, it wont complain about the GTO being there, but the GTO wont be noticed either.

Ask a BMW enthusiast, they like the BMW. Thats why they buy the BMW

Not the australian built 400hp car that still runs 13's for 35K.
yeah its **** nice too, but tell that to dealerships selling 2004's for 23K new
just to get rid of em

GM has slated someone will be disappearing
Right now its between Buick and Pontiac.
As I see it Buick is toast, not Pontiac.

But GM also seems like it may be solely Chevrolet at some point in the future, far or near.

Originally posted by Nocturn@Apr 19 2005, 09:08 PM
While those are some valid points, the error is in the competition. Your argument works if the GTO were meant to go up against the Mustang, which it isn't. The GTO was meant to be put up against the M3, CL55 (I think, dont know my MBs), and other various imports, and compared to them its a hell of a bargain and a great car, no one thinks the M3 is to bland because of its market. The GTO is meant to go for that same market, but because of its name it gets dragged into being compared with the cheaper end of the sports cars like the Mustang and the Charger when thats really not what it was meant to be compared to.

True 04s were slow on sales, but 05s are having 80% higher sales and without having to use rebates, so I think Pontiac just needed to get the word out a bit, which they have. I think they need to stick with the imported Monaro untill the US gets their version of Zeta on the way. When they do a redesign I think they can go a bit more agressive but need to stay classy with it, much like Cadillac has done. If they go to flamboyant they will lose the audiance they want, and at the current MSRP, they will also lose those who like its new boy racer image. No engine options either, making a cheaper V6 version of the car only goes to hurt its image as a performance car.
Even on the GM sites (GMBuyPower) the very first vehicle the GTO is compared with is the Mustang GT. They do compare it to the BMW 3 series, but saying it shouldn't be compared against the Mustang is just silly.

http://www.gmbuypower.com/compare.bp?make=...92&modelId=053& (http://www.gmbuypower.com/compare.bp?make=Pontiac&model=GTO&makeId=002&zip=68133&sellingSource=16&year=2005&subModelId=192&modelId=053&)

Bottom line - the average person that is looking to purchase a RWD performance coupe in the $25-30 range is going to include both the Mustang AND the GTO.

They compete.

"Nocturn dont be ignorant, fact is GTO will lose to the 05 Stang solely on appearance basis.
What happens happens, try as you might the GTO is losing out to the Mustang not the BMW, if Pontiac grasped this fact and made the GTO a cheaper car with more options I think they'd have a real winner. But as it is Everybody wants the stylish 2005 GT (which is a **** nice car) for 26K."

Well first of all I'm not being ignorant, saying a car will loose out because of styling is an illogical statment as stlying is subjective, I for one wouldn't go near a GT but love the GTO. If you mean loosing out by the way of sales, well GM never wanted to havea huge seller like the Mustang did, If they did they would have offered with a cheaper entry trim with a V6 engine, they would have had leather optional and a bunch of other things that make it more easily available. Bottom line is that GM wanted a halo car, a Flagship for pontiac that could out perform everyone, embody the new image, and steer the company into its new design phase, meaning trying to move the brands image upmarket to that of BMW where Lutz wants it to go.

Lots of people want the Stang, its expected to sell 165,000 units, yet if the GTO sells just 12,000 it sells all of its production run, now which would you call a better sucsess, Most would say the Mustang, but thats a phallacy as its easier to sell a car like the Mustang, with V6 options, Convertibles, nearly 1/2 the base MSRP of the GTO. Of course the car is going to sell more, thats simple numbers, but the GTO I would argue is the better sucsess because it can sell all of its production run without major rebates, which the 05 appears to be doing. The 04 had to have incentives, but the 05 is selling 80% more GTOs per month than the 04 is.

Just because a company or person compares the two, doesn't mean there markets are the same. People compare the M3 to the Cobra all the time, but no one is going to say they are made for the same market. Fact of the matter is, compare whatever cars you like to other cars, their intended market is where the manufactorer thinks it competes with, and that has been stated as the performance euros. Meaning GM wants it to go up against those cars, that GTO add proves this. Yes most people will cross shop the two, but the problem lies in what your comparing, the GTO and the Stang are not in the same class, but mearly the same price range, just as you would compare an M3 to a Corvette mearly as their prices are similar.

Your whole resurgence reeks of sour grapes as the 05 has proven to run 12s and has a nicer interior, and ride and handleing than your the old fbodies.

I own a 3 seris BMW and it's a great car, but I wouldn't say that the GTO goes unnoticed. I think the GTO is a badass car and, in fact, I'm thinking about getting one as my next car. I think that the GTO can compare with the M3 (quite frankly I think people put too much hype on the M3 sometimes). If I were looking to buy a car I would look at both.

Yes Nocturn.
Im sorry
I left the grapes out overnight.
Try as you might a WS6 next to a GTO...................well both kick a**, but one kicks a little more and its the WS6

I love the F-bodies, they have character, thats what sells cars.
Thats why Ford's 2005 is so popular and thats why Chrysler sells so many **** PT cruisers and Crossfires. The GTO basically is a cavalier on steroids. If you argue you're an idiot. If you dont see that the GTO is to plain you're stupid.

I like the SAP GTO's
I like SLP's GTO

But

I liked the WS6 Firebird
And SLP's Firehawk a lot better. ( haha I have one)


Sorry I'm bringing the F-body back into this, I know it sold ****py and doesn't exist any more.
But they've gotten a lot more popular lately.

ANYWAY
back on topic

I see the GTO lasting until 2008-9 tops no more, and it wouldn't surprise me if 2006 was the finale. The GTO is great bang for the buck, but not enough.......................
The Camaro is returning, lets cross our fingers a Firebird follows. And pray to God they are balls out American sports cars, not obeise grand am's with V8's
And also that they put Ford back in its place

I REST MY CASE

Originally posted by Firehawk@Apr 20 2005, 08:33 PM
Once this GTO

[PICTURE ABOVE]

Fill's this GTO's shoes

[PICTURE ABOVE]

Filling these will not be a problem

:hysterical: POOF - DONE!

Why are you posting here? What a Stooge...

cause your a faggot thats why

Nocturn: Post like this is what get you banned.

Nocturn, What ad are you refering to? The one that has 3 series BMW in it for all of half a second? If so then you are grasping at straws, That ad does nothing to address the car to the luxury performance market that the GTO was built to compete in.

You said that people will compare different cars against each other regardless of what the target markets were supposed to be. I agree with you there, I also agree that GM has stated up front what their target market was with the GTO, but their marketing strategy does not say the same.

Now, here is the brutal honesty part.
It does not matter what market the GTO was built to compete in. The thing that really matters is what market it settled in to and that Market as much we all may want to deny it is the Ponycar market against the Mustang.

As far as the '05 sales are going they have been going up slightly over the last few months but they are still selling less then the 1000 per month that they have targeted. and therefore will have a few hundred left over when the 2006 GTO's hit the street that will be had for a nice savings.

Originally posted by Firehawk@Apr 20 2005, 08:09 PM
Yes Nocturn.
Im sorry
I left the grapes out overnight.
Try as you might a WS6 next to a GTO...................well both kick a**, but one kicks a little more and its the WS6

I love the F-bodies, they have character, thats what sells cars.
Thats why Ford's 2005 is so popular and thats why Chrysler sells so many **** PT cruisers and Crossfires. The GTO basically is a cavalier on steroids. If you argue you're an idiot. If you dont see that the GTO is to plain you're stupid.


The f-body was a great car, I owned a WS6. However, if it is your daily car it does get a little old when you go to take $m customers out and coworkers say "lets take the batmobile". Both have positives and negatives, so far though only compliments when I take the GTO out. It'll deliver both excitement and comfort when driving and riding, also doesn't draw the attention such as the W6S did. It's exactly what I needed when purchasing an impressing, yet subtle vehicle.

Firehawk is gone now, you don't flame a moderator with language like that and expect to stay here.

True the 3 series is only there for a split second, but its still there, GM could have easily thrown any other car in there, a stang, a neon, a pinto for that matter, but they didn't it was a BMW and those who know cars, know what it is as soon as its seen. <_< Still, I can't help but agree that it has seemed to settle into comparisons with the Mustang, I just feel its unjust when people compare it to that flammer-mobile boy racer car when it was designed to compete with different cars. Holden sells the car for 40-50K in Europe and Australia, around the same price as a vette over there, I think whats hurting the GTO most is its name/brand in the states, had it been a Cadillac or say a Lexus, do you think it would have been judged nearly the same? No way.

GTO sales were over 1000 in march, but thats 04+05 sales <_< , but still 80% above what 04 sales were last year. I think 05 is going to be a good year, with 06 being the best yet.

As for the fbody comments, I'll refer to all 1000 other post on the same subject.

I totally agree with your comments there Nocturn. I also think that Firehawk was way out of line with his comments. We were having a nice debate/discussion and he flew off the deep end.

As for his and others comments about the whole styling department aspect of the car.

Everyone has different tastes and what I like is not the same as everyone else. The thing about the GTO's styling that hurts it IMO is the fact that it settled into same class as the Rustang and therefore is perceived by most pretty much everyone as the F-body replacement. The only people that know differently are we enthusiasts of the F-bodies and the New GTO.

I personally feel that if the GTO were competing in its true class with the BMW/Benz/Lexus then its styling is perfect, it looks comfortable and respectable. Unfortunately being thought of as the Mustang's competition makes the Styling a more subjective thing and puts it into the less mature thoughts of the 18-24 yr old group that don't care about the interior appointments and ride comfort. They mainly want am aggressive, mean looking car with great performance. Something that they can cruise the street on Sunday and have all of their friends stop what they are doing and turn and watch them drive by.

The GTO is not the car that can do that, because in that market for every one person that goes "Wow, what kind of car is that" there are 10 that say "haha, nice Grand AM/PRix/Cavalier."

Now as far as GM's target market I think even they are starting to fall into the Ponycar rut, The new SAP IMO will really do more to entrench the GTO in a competition with the Mustang for sales and take it away from its true market where I really think it would make a killing.

I wonder how many folks in here have driven the new 2005 GTO. I have been driving Pontiac's for over 26 years, my first car was a 1971 GTO. I have owned several Trans Am's since then, my last one a 1997 Ram Air, and I'll tell you what, I NEVER thought I'd sell that car, I loved it! But one quick test drive of the 2005 GTO changed my mind.

Is it much to look at? Well it not a retro pretty car like the Mustang, but I'll take my GTO any day! Has anyone noticed you can't turn your head without seeing the new Mustang's on the road. The appeal will wear off pretty quickly there I think, while the GTO, still distingushable to anyone that truely knows what it is, is a rare site.

I love my new 2005 GTO. I find it a comfortable and fun ride! I hope, and trust GM will right things with the GTO, and continue the line for years to come. But if they don't, I feel pretty good that I managed to grab a piece of GTO lore.... B)

Well I think it ends up with is the glass half empty or half full. Half empty, well it competes with the stang and is to bland, half full, well it competes with the Euros and looks great kicking their a**.

I'm Surprised no one has brought up Motor Trends May edition mag!! :o

Directly across the top of the mag is a pic of the 08 GTO!
Inside there are three drawings of the car. They say the car will be introduced at the Detroit 06 auto show and in showrooms in 07 as a 08 model. Same engine as the 05, same power ratings just new body and better suspension.

The code name for the 08 GTO is GMX282 and will be under the direction of Mike Simcoe who designed the current model and Monaro. He is now resposible for all Gm North American cars.

I THINK THE 08 YEAR LOOKS AWESOME! sorta looks like it was dating a G35 COUPE.

There are a couple threads on that magazine, basically it was made before GM put its zeta platform on hold, so it was factual untill GMs earnings report that sent the stock down. So GM has put it on hold for now.

But we still may see an imported GTO off the Monaro as The zeta platform is still eing used for those cars.

OK IF and I say IF The GTO get cut. OK remember what was said back before they hit the market? They wanted the GTO to be a colecter in 20-30 years by the people collecting cars. OK all the info from my kids at school. The GTO is "SICK"
as they say. They can not afford them GM cuts them short. What will that do when these kids get our age and have the money and do just as we are? They will be looking for the old muscle car 04-05 GTO. Like we auuuuuu at a '69 T/A or a 64 GTO with a tri power. Yes I love my GTO and will never part with it. I have mine. If they cut them short yes I feel sorry for the people that don't get one but just as anything else you wate for better you better exept the chance you wate to long. It is a **** shoot. Be glad if they do cut short you have one. It will only make less of them out there. I know the 04 GTO is hot and love mine I don't need it to hange around to proove it. I am not trying to be a jurk.
I guess what i am trying to say is we are some of the few that have them. I for one am happy they did bring them back and not return my preproduction order down payment. Hear is a idea. If i was in charge of GM I would stop production get public to scramble in fear they are gone sell all the 04's and 05's in stock. 3 years later bring it back build in US. Then public has a taste and it is not as so many say " a import" hence more sales. good chance i am just a fool though.

WS6 over GTO ? no way.



besides anyone who knows anything about F-bodies knows that the 3rd gens had better handling capabilities than the 4th gens..

its just IROC and GTAs suffered a bit from lack of horsepower

I think the GTO looks fine from the front doors forward. I like it. My only prob with it is from the back end. It looks too dull and drab. The rear wing is too simple, the taillights are terrible, and it should have more of a sleaker, slanted fastback. Plus the car costs way too much money. $38,000 is highway robbery.

I loved the Trans Am, and I would take a WS-6 over any other car on the market. I realize Pontiac is trying to become BMW. Not going to happen, ever. BMW is a name, not simply a car. I personally think they're overpriced volkswagons, and would recommend a Volvo instead, but people are stupid and image-conscious.

MSRP is 33,190. If you got quoted for 38K your getting a dealer trying to rip you off.

Originally posted by TheJizzer@Feb 28 2005, 03:24 AM
So the lack of sales due to -- A non American, dealer mark up, non-hood scoop GTO has killed it for the future!

And GM says to me; and I quote on 3 different occasions "The dealers are a separate entity. We have no control or say in what they do to practice business".

And they also say "We do listen to what people tell us about our cars" --
Who are they listening to, the Japanese? Germans?
I am sick of hearing this bulls***. GM licences the dealers. They have ultimate control over them.

As far as the gto. I was totally against bringing this car over and calling it a gto from the get go, but it is actually growing on me now.

At any rate, the typical piss poor gm introduction ect and the greedy a** dealers set this car up to fail in the beginnig. Personally I hope they keep it going, but if not, we have the solstace :hysterical: fuicking unreal

Originally posted by Nocturn@Apr 25 2005, 03:38 AM
There are a couple threads on that magazine, basically it was made before GM put its zeta platform on hold, so it was factual untill GMs earnings report that sent the stock down. So GM has put it on hold for now.

But we still may see an imported GTO off the Monaro as The zeta platform is still eing used for those cars.
June issue of Motor Trend claims they're hearing that the next-gen Zeta-based GTO is safe.

They also claim that the drawings they had in May are close to the real thing.

Please check out the link below. It is straight to GM's GTO ordering page for the '06 GTO.

GTO Online Order (http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2006&regionID=1&divisionID=7&type=0&vehicleID=2533&section=modelhome&page=&butID=1#)

The way I see it Pontiac is GM's saving grace as far as performance goes and when they screwed up with the whole "GTO's an australian sedan rebadged" thing and lost alot of support they decided to ax the current rebadge version. The rumor I've heard and seems to be backed up by motor trend is that the new Goat will arrive between 07 and 09 with it's own sheet metal based off the zeta platform with one important difference........ The Judge. I hope it's true if anyone can give me more info I'd appreciate it.

Originally posted by Goat Runner@Jun 12 2005, 11:52 PM
The way I see it Pontiac is GM's saving grace as far as performance goes and when they screwed up with the whole "GTO's an australian sedan rebadged" thing and lost alot of support they decided to ax the current rebadge version. The rumor I've heard and seems to be backed up by motor trend is that the new Goat will arrive between 07 and 09 with it's own sheet metal based off the zeta platform with one important difference........ The Judge. I hope it's true if anyone can give me more info I'd appreciate it.
Your new so I'll let it slide. The Zeta platform has been dead for months now. Gm isn't going to make anything with zeta.

Originally posted by torridredaccd+Jun 13 2005, 03:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (torridredaccd @ Jun 13 2005, 03:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Goat Runner@Jun 12 2005, 11:52 PM
The way I see it Pontiac is GM's saving grace as far as performance goes and when they screwed up with the whole "GTO's an australian sedan rebadged" thing and lost alot of support they decided to ax the current rebadge version. The rumor I've heard and seems to be backed up by motor trend is that the new Goat will arrive between 07 and 09 with it's own sheet metal based off the zeta platform with one important difference........ The Judge. I hope it's true if anyone can give me more info I'd appreciate it.
Your new so I'll let it slide. The Zeta platform has been dead for months now. Gm isn't going to make anything with zeta. [/b][/quote]
Gm owns Holden, and Holden is still using Zeta, so logically....

I read on the gminsidenews.com that there will be gap of production for the GTO. If I not mistaken gm is thinking about bring the production to the US.

This could happen, it could not...it really depends on the UAW and if they will allow holden to export the GTO after 07.

Originally posted by Transam9585@Mar 1 2005, 10:19 AM
Wow ever since the demise of the Fbody alot of people are hard on slow selling GM cars. The GTO is only a limted run of years anyway. GM planned on it that way. THe figured it would take 2-3 years for the GTO platform to really hit stride. They did not by anymeans rush into the GTO and just throw it out there. Its a nitch market vehical. Those who really want one, will go get one. GM knows this. You cant compare the GTO to the Fbodies they arent the same or marketed as the same. Id bet all my cars that the GTO stays around for the duration of GM plan from day one for it.
You can't really compare the GTO to the f-bodies. The GTO blows away the F-car in every category except perhaps styling, and that is a subjective issue. As far as the specs are concerned, the GTO is a better car than the F-body ever could be on the platform it was on.

That said, does it mean the GTO should outsell it? Don't think so.

Here's why . The F-car came in various trim and equipment levels, from "lite" v6's and sparse equipment to loaded V8 speed sleds. All this choice allowed the F-car to increase its sales volume. The only options on a GTO are hood scoops and choice of tranny.

Thus , to expect sales in the neighborhood of 100,000+ cars per year is a silly expectation at best. It would be tantamount to exclusively selling the camaro SS and expecting to make the same sales numbers.

In fact, I'll bet the GTO is outselling the top-level WS-6/SS cars exclusively.
So the idea of simply ending it after four + years of market presence?:hysterical:

Im out of the loop for a little while and everyone says the GTO is going the way of the dodo( again). I really really hope not, ive been seeing a ton of 05s and they seem to be sellilng very well. I love my 04 but with 05 i feel Pontiac really hit the nail on the head. It took everything that was not done on the 04 and did it.

Heres a tidbit from The August issue of Motor Trend......the news out of the General is that there is an "en-masse" cancellation order of everything rear-wheel drive. The Velite, the "future" camaro, and the G8 (Bonneville replacement) are all dead- permanently.As in "front-dirve for life" at GM. I guess the marketing department's the only place with the lights on , eh? :angry:

The GOOD NEWS? THERE WILL BE,REPEAT,THERE WILL BE A 2008 GTO!

So in other words?

DON'T DESPAIR. :dribble:

Originally posted by GTO or No@Jul 5 2005, 11:39 AM
Heres a tidbit from The August issue of Motor Trend......the news out of the General is that there is an "en-masse" cancellation order of everything rear-wheel drive. The Velite, the "future" camaro, and the G8 (Bonneville replacement) are all dead- permanently.As in "front-dirve for life" at GM. I guess the marketing department's the only place with the lights on , eh? :angry:

The GOOD NEWS? THERE WILL BE,REPEAT,THERE WILL BE A 2008 GTO!

So in other words?

DON'T DESPAIR. :dribble:
A FWD GTO! No way would I buy one. I know that is not what you said but reading "in to it" would say that the GTO will become a FWD performance coupe. YUCK!

Get them while they are here.

Originally posted by TheJizzer+Jul 5 2005, 01:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheJizzer @ Jul 5 2005, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GTO or No@Jul 5 2005, 11:39 AM
Heres a tidbit from The August issue of Motor Trend......the news out of the General is that there is an "en-masse" cancellation order of everything rear-wheel drive. The Velite, the "future" camaro, and the G8 (Bonneville replacement) are all dead- permanently.As in "front-dirve for life" at GM. I guess the marketing department's the only place with the lights on , eh? :angry:

The GOOD NEWS? THERE WILL BE,REPEAT,THERE WILL BE A 2008 GTO!

So in other words?

DON'T DESPAIR. :dribble:
A FWD GTO! No way would I buy one. I know that is not what you said but reading "in to it" would say that the GTO will become a FWD performance coupe. YUCK! [/b][/quote]
Let me clarify......The next GTO, the 2008, will be built on a rear-drive platform.

I shoulda mentioned this in my original post.

Eveything else rear-drive except some Cadillacs,the Solistice/Sky, and the Corvette gets the axe.

Funny....GM kills the very cars it needs to get out of the fiscal "red" its in.

WHY OH WHY MUST GM make cars in the name of former great cars so horrible?

Why is the dual exhaust exited both on the same side so it looks like a honda muffler?
Why does the GTO look more like a Olds Aurara rental car than its heritage?
Who actually thought you could produce something that looks like that and have it sell?

I pity those who actually got to work on it. When I am part of a project that has the potential to turn out great and it gets ruined from some leaders ideas it makes me so upset. Good luck selling other cars that only bear the name of former great cars its all in vain.

:-(

Originally posted by RokCrawl@Jul 12 2005, 09:44 AM
WHY OH WHY MUST GM make cars in the name of former great cars so horrible?

Why is the dual exhaust exited both on the same side so it looks like a honda muffler?
Why does the GTO look more like a Olds Aurara rental car than its heritage?
Who actually thought you could produce something that looks like that and have it sell?

I pity those who actually got to work on it. When I am part of a project that has the potential to turn out great and it gets ruined from some leaders ideas it makes me so upset. Good luck selling other cars that only bear the name of former great cars its all in vain.

:-(
Bob Lutz thought so......thats why he imported here from Austrailia.

Hold up a second......and you say the GTO is a failure? Not according to the performance sheets or the 2005 sales charts. As far as misuse of the name is concerned, hey, you complain about a car that has the same cylinder counts and performance as its namesake, yet neglect such obvious marketing-department failures such as the Monte Carlo and the so-called Malibu ( and SS variant. With only 240hp?! :angry: ) that have only name and wheel counts in common with their predecessors.

Its funny how people forget their history. The original ,"first-ever" GTO had not one hood scoop,spoiler,stick-on,decal,basket-handle wing, or even more than two badges. It had a plain-jane wrapper that contained a monster within. Only after the reputation of the GTO as a performance champ developed did the scoops, fenders, spoilers, and other add-ons appeared.
Styling?Ill take a stealthy two-door high-speed, Non-Cop-Magnet over a overhyped , overcladded,slow-a$$, fugly POS ( Grand Am and Aztek come to mind)
BTW, They fixed both the exhaust and the sales deficincies for the '05 model year.If youre gonna diss a GTO on the GTO forum, at least GET YOUR INFORMATION STRAIGHT!

Originally posted by blibert@Jun 3 2005, 10:42 AM
Please check out the link below. It is straight to GM's GTO ordering page for the '06 GTO.

GTO Online Order (http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2006®ionID=1&divisionID=7&type=0&vehicleID=2533§ion=modelhome&page=&butID=1#)
Excuse the off-topic but it does seem weird that GMNA rate GTO towing capacity at a mere 454kg (http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2006&regionID=1&divisionID=7&type=0&vehicleID=2533&section=trailer_specs&page=&butID=8) while GM-Holden endorse the virtually identical Monaro for 1600kg (http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/techdata?modelid=12001)

For example, max towing capacity of Jeep Grand Cherokee is similar in both countries (AU & USA) so why the huge disparity between directly comparable Holden & Pontiac? :unsure:

In response to GM not making the new GTO more retro I disagree. At first I thought the new Goat should look more 70ish but once I saw the new one and really looked at it Im glad they built it with a modern look. Who knows if the GTO had stayed in production it very well might have evolved into the car we have now.

I bought an 04 Blk/Blk and love it could not be happier. I like the creature comforts with out sacrificing performance.

I had a 66 and a 70 GTO loved them both, but over all the 04 is much improved in all aspects. I am a die hard GOAT owner and will own one for the rest of my life. I admit it may look a little plain but I like the wolf in sheeps clothing look. It blows the mind of those "Stangers" when you slap them down, they dont expect it from a plain looking rental type car. HA!

Just my opinion, I guess knowing the GTO history gives me a sense of pride when Im rollin in my NEW GOAT.

Remember to SMACK A STANG A DAY, it keeps the punks in place.

Originally posted by RokCrawl@Jul 12 2005, 09:44 AM
WHY OH WHY MUST GM make cars in the name of former great cars so horrible?

Why is the dual exhaust exited both on the same side so it looks like a honda muffler?
Why does the GTO look more like a Olds Aurara rental car than its heritage?
Who actually thought you could produce something that looks like that and have it sell?

I pity those who actually got to work on it. When I am part of a project that has the potential to turn out great and it gets ruined from some leaders ideas it makes me so upset. Good luck selling other cars that only bear the name of former great cars its all in vain.

:-(
HOLY BEJESUS!

COME ON PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take a look at the first TransAM and a 2002 TransAM -- see a patern there? NO NO NO one is a brick and one is a steath machine.

Remember in 1982 when GM switched to the"little" Camaro and TransAm -- Everyone hated them.

The GTO has a CoD of .3!!!!!!!

YES .3!!!!!!!!! dagone close to a vette! Also it

OH FORGET IT!!!!!!

I love my GTO and will have it for a long time, SEE BELOW FOR MY EXAMPLES!!!!!!!!! YES THE NEWAGE GTO IS A DIRECT EVOLUTION OF THE GTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1969
[http://www.mindspring.com/~dmrose/69ta.jpg

1981
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/723000-723999/723544_23_full.jpg

1982
http://www.ih2000.net/packrat911/tahome2.jpg

1990
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/90PhotoGalleryPics/doski90gta.jpg

2002
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/254000-254999/254692_8.jpg

GEE SEE A PATERN!!!!!!!!!!

The NewAge GTO is everything that the original GTO was....

Low Profile and fast as hell! Able to seat 4 (ok the original may have seated 5) but you follow me...

It looks like a Grand Prix but is a GTO -- ok the Original looked like a Tempest but was a GTO

As for the single exhaust....... IT IS A TRUE DUAL EXHAUST! unlike the Trans Am or Camar or Mustang!

hey I know == Anyone who bashes the NewAge GTO sucks as bad as they think the new GTO sucks....cause you have absolutely no idea. And my guess is you never even driven one let alone looked at one! :jumpon:

WHY OH WHY MUST GM make cars in the name of former great cars so horrible?

I actually agree here. GM has *******ized just about every name sake. The New GTO should have been billed as an import to kill the M3 or they should have marketed it as the G8.

Why is the dual exhaust exited both on the same side so it looks like a honda muffler?

99% of the people would rip off the stock exhaust even if it sounded like sex and flowed incredibly. Its a moot point about the exhaust except that you have the facia to deal with on the 04' if you goto "separated" duals.

Why does the GTO look more like a Olds Aurara rental car than its heritage?
Who actually thought you could produce something that looks like that and have it sell?

Look like an Aurora? You must be blind. The Aurora was a great car btw, again a marketing blunder on the part of GM, but I digress. 05's are selling well. If they sell too well, people like you would yell that GM f'ed up and can't build a car fast enough.

I pity those who actually got to work on it. When I am part of a project that has the potential to turn out great and it gets ruined from some leaders ideas it makes me so upset. Good luck selling other cars that only bear the name of former great cars its all in vain.

I would sell my left testicle to design even ****py cars at GM.

Thanks for the pick me up Rok. Do you feel better now that you vented on a site full of people that worship the GTO?



Rok, go test drive an 05' and if you still feel the urge to post negative comments, I won't say anything more.

Better yet just crawl back under your rock......RokCrawl.

Give it a rest, hes not here anymore so....

I would just like to add something hear. Remember when it was said the GTO was not to be a flash in the pan like the PT and Bug. Thus the design that appeals to the younger croud. Well tell you what in 20 years the car show people will be these highschool kids. ya to us the old school GTO is asom. To the high school kidd it is the 04 and 05's. They just can't aford it just as we could not afford a 68 Judge for example. Just as to our folks they loved the modle A and T we love the 60's and 70's. Have you ever paid attention to how goaks at the cars the most. It is the younger croud that don't remember the old school.
I for one love my goat and will have it a very long time. My kids want it but geuss what NOT :woot:
I for one think GM did a good job of creating a sought after car in 20 years.
I don't know anyone that if they want to sell a lot of something they don't advertise.
Kind of sounds like a way of insuring long term not instant gratification like 90% of busness today.

Originally posted by TheJizzer@Jul 13 2005, 09:23 PM
The NewAge GTO is everything that the original GTO was....

Low Profile and fast as hell! Able to seat 4 (ok the original may have seated 5) but you follow me...

It looks like a Grand Prix but is a GTO -- ok the Original looked like a Tempest but was a GTO

As for the single exhaust....... IT IS A TRUE DUAL EXHAUST! unlike the Trans Am or Camar or Mustang!

hey I know == Anyone who bashes the NewAge GTO sucks as bad as they think the new GTO sucks....cause you have absolutely no idea. And my guess is you never even driven one let alone looked at one! :jumpon:
good points

Originally posted by GTO or No+Jul 12 2005, 11:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (GTO or No @ Jul 12 2005, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RokCrawl@Jul 12 2005, 09:44 AM
WHY OH WHY MUST GM make cars in the name of former great cars so horrible?

Why is the dual exhaust exited both on the same side so it looks like a honda muffler?
Why does the GTO look more like a Olds Aurara rental car than its heritage?
Who actually thought you could produce something that looks like that and have it sell?

I pity those who actually got to work on it. When I am part of a project that has the potential to turn out great and it gets ruined from some leaders ideas it makes me so upset. Good luck selling other cars that only bear the name of former great cars its all in vain.

:-(
Bob Lutz thought so......thats why he imported here from Austrailia.

Hold up a second......and you say the GTO is a failure? Not according to the performance sheets or the 2005 sales charts. As far as misuse of the name is concerned, hey, you complain about a car that has the same cylinder counts and performance as its namesake, yet neglect such obvious marketing-department failures such as the Monte Carlo and the so-called Malibu ( and SS variant. With only 240hp?! :angry: ) that have only name and wheel counts in common with their predecessors.

Its funny how people forget their history. The original ,"first-ever" GTO had not one hood scoop,spoiler,stick-on,decal,basket-handle wing, or even more than two badges. It had a plain-jane wrapper that contained a monster within. Only after the reputation of the GTO as a performance champ developed did the scoops, fenders, spoilers, and other add-ons appeared.
Styling?Ill take a stealthy two-door high-speed, Non-Cop-Magnet over a overhyped , overcladded,slow-a$$, fugly POS ( Grand Am and Aztek come to mind)
BTW, They fixed both the exhaust and the sales deficincies for the '05 model year.If youre gonna diss a GTO on the GTO forum, at least GET YOUR INFORMATION STRAIGHT! [/b][/quote]
actually the first GTO did have hood scoops although they were not functional. The orginal GTO actually wasnt considered to be plain jane in its day, it was actually considered to be stylish although it was not as far out looking as later muscle cars.

It's official, the last Monaro / GTO will be built in August.

TO ALL HOLDEN DEALERS BULLETIN NO. 167/05


VZ MONARO CV8Z – THE LAST OF A LEGEND


The special edition Monaro CV8Z will be produced from August 1st 2005 and is the final version of the iconic VZ Monaro. 1200 CV8Zs will be built.

EXTERIOR
CV8-Z features an all-new Holden colour called Fusion which is an orange-based metallic delivering sharp gold highlights through to darker bronzed drop-out.

Exterior features include factory fitted Holden By Design sunroof, black bonnet scoop accents, machine-faced 18-inch five-spoke alloy wheels with one spoke embossed with the CV8-Z logo, modified rear lamps and unique gun metal chrome CV8-Z badging on the rear.

INTERIOR
Buyers choosing Fusion or Phantom colour CV8Zs will receive a Fusion coloured instrument cluster and a Fusion and Anthracite leather trim combination.

Three other combinations will be offered – Quicksilver, Turismo and Devil Yellow with Anthracite leather and colour-matched instrument cluster.

PRICING
The RRP for the CV8Z Monaro is $60,490.

COLOURS
Fusion Mica
Phantom Mica
Quicksilver Metallic
Devil Yellow
Tuismo Mica

COMMUNICATION
CV8Z brochures, internet information and dealer web centre images will be available from August 1

Corporate Affairs expect significant media interest in the CV8Z.

An advertising communication program is also being developed to ensure that the Monaro CV8Z will have a send off befitting its status as Australia’s greatest sports car and one that is sure to become a collector’s edition. The campaign will air from mid September


Should you have any questions regarding the details of this bulletin, please contact Matthew Arnold on 03 9647 2647 or matthew.t.arnold@gm.com

http://www1.tpg.com.au/fgrant95/gto/cv8.jpg

You need to read your post a little closer. The GTO will be here for 06 model year. The article says NOTHING about the GTO. Look at what is said.



The special edition Monaro CV8Z will be produced from August 1st 2005

It says "from August 1st 2005". That means it will BEGIN on that date, not end.

Further down:

CV8Z brochures, internet information and dealer web centre images will be available from August 1

Once again "from". That means it is starting, not ending.

Please doublecheck your information before making false claims. The 2006 GTO for the US is on and will begin sometime in August. The last 2005's have already rolled off the line. The 06's will be here late in the year. (Nov. or Dec.)

Originally posted by frankO@Jul 20 2005, 05:00 PM
and is the final version of the iconic VZ Monaro. 1200 CV8Zs will be built.

What I said is correct, the last lot of Monaros / GTOs will start to be built in August. And then that is it, no more. You might call it a 06 model but here in Australia it is still a 05 model. The 06 model commodores will be built on the Zeta platform. There will be no Monaro / GTO on the Zeta platform.

Well considering you guys are in winter now, that makes sence. There will be an 06 of both cars, but simply because the Commodore is on Zeta doesn't meant hey will immediatly move the Monaro to that platform also, the Monaro will continue through this year untill the 07s are out, then it will most likely switch.

What I said is correct, the last lot of Monaros / GTOs will start to be built in August.

That isn't what you said in the post before. Here is what you said.

It's official, the last Monaro / GTO will be built in August.

Going by your first statement, the LAST Monaro and GTO would roll off the line in August. That IS NOT TRUE. You were incorrect. You have corrected it in your post above and that is fine. But in your first post you were incorrect. Call it splitting hairs or whatever. You have to be careful about your wordings or the meaning will become misconstrued. I'm sure you knew what you meant when you posted but it didn't come out right. I understand.

Thank you for posting and clarifying it. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just want the readership here to get correct information.

The last VZ bodied Monaros/GTO run of production will start in August. These last Monaro's will remain 2005 models. Our GTO will be a 2006 model. I'm sure the Monaro run will be short as it is only 1200 vehicles. It will probably end in a couple of months. In the meantime our 2006 GTO will continue production on the VZ body style well into the year 2006, more than likely all the way until May or June to fulfill GM's agreement with Holden to build approximately 18,000 GTO's per year (probably more around 15K).

Zeta bodied 2006 Monaros will be produced after that. I'm not sure what you Aussies will call the next body [V?] ??? We are desparetely hoping that GTO production will continue on the Zeta body Monaro so we can have a 2007 model year GTO and beyond. GM brass hasn't let anything out yet so it's all speculation. BUT it is good news that the Monaro will go on the Zeta making it a VERY GOOD chance for a future GTO.

Again thank you for the post. I'm just trying to get the information correct. Sorry about the mixup and please keep posting. You folks afterall are building our car for us. :)

Where did you get your info that the Monaro will continue on the new platform. Commodore has been confirmed, but I have seen nothing on Monaro. I've always looked specifically for this when reading the news articles.

I fear that it is a definate possibility that the Monaro (and GTO) will go away once the current platform production ends. It's not what I want to happen, but I have seen nothing to indicate it will continue.

If the solstice is a hit for Pontiac, and if we see a new Camaro for Chevy in 2007 then I can see the General saying "we have enough offerings in the performance market". I wouldn't put it past them. They've let their performance car offerings die before.

Steve

Oops, my mistake. I meant to say Commodore, not Monaro. A Zeta body Commodore will bode well for a possible Zeta Monaro which would in turn bode well for a Zeta GTO. I skipped a step in there. As far as I know I have not seen any concrete information confirming a Zeta Monaro, only rumor from car media (magazines, websites).

I'd almost swear I've seen some rudimentary sketches of a Zeta bodied Monaro though somewhere. I may be confusing that with the rough sketches made of a Zeta bodied 2008 GTO that showed up in Motor Trend recently. I'll check to see if I can't dig it up. :)

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Jul 21 2005, 10:51 AM
What I said is correct, the last lot of Monaros / GTOs will start to be built in August.

That isn't what you said in the post before. Here is what you said.

It's official, the last Monaro / GTO will be built in August.

Going by your first statement, the LAST Monaro and GTO would roll off the line in August. That IS NOT TRUE. You were incorrect. You have corrected it in your post above and that is fine. But in your first post you were incorrect. Call it splitting hairs or whatever. You have to be careful about your wordings or the meaning will become misconstrued. I'm sure you knew what you meant when you posted but it didn't come out right. I understand.

Thank you for posting and clarifying it. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just want the readership here to get correct information.

The last VZ bodied Monaros/GTO run of production will start in August. These last Monaro's will remain 2005 models. Our GTO will be a 2006 model. I'm sure the Monaro run will be short as it is only 1200 vehicles. It will probably end in a couple of months. In the meantime our 2006 GTO will continue production on the VZ body style well into the year 2006, more than likely all the way until May or June to fulfill GM's agreement with Holden to build approximately 18,000 GTO's per year (probably more around 15K).

Zeta bodied 2006 Monaros will be produced after that. I'm not sure what you Aussies will call the next body [V?] ??? We are desparetely hoping that GTO production will continue on the Zeta body Monaro so we can have a 2007 model year GTO and beyond. GM brass hasn't let anything out yet so it's all speculation. BUT it is good news that the Monaro will go on the Zeta making it a VERY GOOD chance for a future GTO.

Again thank you for the post. I'm just trying to get the information correct. Sorry about the mixup and please keep posting. You folks afterall are building our car for us. :)
Motortrend already reported that the only GM car sold in north america on the zeta platfrom will be the GTO. The GTO will continue after they stop building the current body style and GM said its definite. As for the camaro and other rwd plans, they have been s****ed for the time being due to problems at GM.

Just to speculate a moment.

Taking a couple of highlights from frankO's post on the CV8-z.

Wouldn't it be nice for the GTO to be optioned with the sunroof and blacked out hood scoops and those 18 inch wheels (sans the CV8-z of course).

Well maybe they could be late model year additions as they have not been announced yet. Just pure speculation on this one. :)

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Jul 21 2005, 10:49 PM
Just to speculate a moment.

Taking a couple of highlights from frankO's post on the CV8-z.

Wouldn't it be nice for the GTO to be optioned with the sunroof and blacked out hood scoops and those 18 inch wheels (sans the CV8-z of course).

Well maybe they could be late model year additions as they have not been announced yet. Just pure speculation on this one. :)
Hi there, yes, there are a lot of interesting "rumours" about our Monaro at the moment. Yes, the CV8Z would appear to be the last Monaro of the current shape. But from what I can see, your dealers are taking orders for 2006 GTO's--So I reckon that you'll still be able to buy a GTO, after Monaro production has ceased--BUT, only for a limited period. I would say that production of a 2 door coupe in Australia, after this run finishes would be very doubtful--so if you guys are going to have a later GTO, say 2008(I believe there will be at least a 2 year gap after the current model), I believe it will be made in the US. But there's no certainty in that either, so my advice to you would be, IF YOU WANT A GTO, THINK ABOUT IT NOW, BEFORE IT"S TOO LATE! Cheers, Pickles.

You probally don't know me from Adam, and unless you've been to CamaroZ28.com future vehicles community, you'll probally look at my 1st post here, and see me as a un-credible newby. If so that's OK.

For the rest of you, a few items on the Monaro/GTO.

1. GM North America scheduled to import GTO only 3 years. This started in 2004. It's scheduled to end after the 2006 model year run.

2. The 2005 GTO model year is shortened. The 2004 production started in September if I remember, and ended up in showrooms starting in December '04. The 2006 will be in showrooms in October, with the rest of the traditional 2006 models (2 months and 3000 shorter than last year).

3. GTO MAY be extended for an additional model year. Holden is prepared for that possibility, and GM-NA is seriously considering it if sales hold up (GTO sales are now running well ahead of expectations).

4. MOTOR TRENDS ARTICLE HAS IT WRONG!!!!
a) Zeta is cancelled JUST for North America.
B) It was cancelled because GM decided to go a different route.
c) Zeta's purpose was saving time & money since Holden was doing it all. In the end, the difference turned out to be minimal.
d) GTO didn't "survive" (anyone actually think GM is going to make an assembly line with just the GTO?).
e) There's 2 RWD programs. US & Australia. GM even admitted this.

Pontiac will continue to have a high performance RWD vehicle. A future GTO is currently in limbo, but a performance Pontiac coupe isn't. Alot depends on if Holden goes ahead and produces a coupe on their line, or GM moves the large coupe to a version of the RWD chassis that's being produced for one division at the moment.

We all will have a better picture of what's going on within the next 6 months.

Originally posted by guionM@Jul 24 2005, 03:06 PM
You probally don't know me from Adam, and unless you've been to CamaroZ28.com future vehicles community, you'll probally look at my 1st post here, and see me as a un-credible newby. If so that's OK.

For the rest of you, a few items on the Monaro/GTO.

1. GM North America scheduled to import GTO only 3 years. This started in 2004. It's scheduled to end after the 2006 model year run.

2. The 2005 GTO model year is shortened. The 2004 production started in September if I remember, and ended up in showrooms starting in December '04. The 2006 will be in showrooms in October, with the rest of the traditional 2006 models (2 months and 3000 shorter than last year).

3. GTO MAY be extended for an additional model year. Holden is prepared for that possibility, and GM-NA is seriously considering it if sales hold up (GTO sales are now running well ahead of expectations).

4. MOTOR TRENDS ARTICLE HAS IT WRONG!!!!
a) Zeta is cancelled JUST for North America.
B) It was cancelled because GM decided to go a different route.
c) Zeta's purpose was saving time & money since Holden was doing it all. In the end, the difference turned out to be minimal.
d) GTO didn't "survive" (anyone actually think GM is going to make an assembly line with just the GTO?).
e) There's 2 RWD programs. US & Australia. GM even admitted this.

Pontiac will continue to have a high performance RWD vehicle. A future GTO is currently in limbo, but a performance Pontiac coupe isn't. Alot depends on if Holden goes ahead and produces a coupe on their line, or GM moves the large coupe to a version of the RWD chassis that's being produced for one division at the moment.

We all will have a better picture of what's going on within the next 6 months.
Sounds reasonable to me. I would not be at all confident that there will be another Coupe originating in Aus, after this model ceases production--later this year. But there's probably a "stockpile" of cars for your "2006" model/sales. Like I said before, If you want one -you'd better start planning now! Cheers, Pickles.

You probally don't know me from Adam, and unless you've been to CamaroZ28.com future vehicles community, you'll probally look at my 1st post here, and see me as a un-credible newby. If so that's OK.


That's OK welcome to the site.

1. GM North America scheduled to import GTO only 3 years. This started in 2004. It's scheduled to end after the 2006 model year run.

This has been known for quite some time and has been discussed at length here.

2. The 2005 GTO model year is shortened. The 2004 production started in September if I remember, and ended up in showrooms starting in December '04. The 2006 will be in showrooms in October, with the rest of the traditional 2006 models (2 months and 3000 shorter than last year).


Don't count on that showing up in October. Even though the 05 run was to be shortened the 06's will not start to be produced until August if we take the above information on the CV8-z. At at least 2 to 3 months from production to our shore then late October would be a stretch. November or December will probably be when we see the 06's show up.



3. GTO MAY be extended for an additional model year. Holden is prepared for that possibility, and GM-NA is seriously considering it if sales hold up (GTO sales are now running well ahead of expectations).


Possible, but from what I and others have heard and seen the GTO will not meet 2007 model year crash standards or something to that liking. If that is true I doubt we will see an 07 model on the current Monaro platform. Now if it is after the 07 model year then it is possible.

4. MOTOR TRENDS ARTICLE HAS IT WRONG!!!!
a) Zeta is cancelled JUST for North America.
It was cancelled because GM decided to go a different route.
c) Zeta's purpose was saving time & money since Holden was doing it all. In the end, the difference turned out to be minimal.
d) GTO didn't "survive" (anyone actually think GM is going to make an assembly line with just the GTO?).
e) There's 2 RWD programs. US & Australia. GM even admitted this.


This has also been discussed on the site. The car rags seem to be making a lot of wrong predictions on the fate of the GTO. But with patchy information coming out of Detroit on the fate of the GTO it is no wonder.

Again welcome to the site and glad to hear your information. Nothing new, but you didn't necessarily know that being new to the site, but it's OK. Keep on posting. :D

Originally posted by Orbit Orange@Jul 25 2005, 12:30 AM
You probally don't know me from Adam, and unless you've been to CamaroZ28.com future vehicles community, you'll probally look at my 1st post here, and see me as a un-credible newby. If so that's OK.


That's OK welcome to the site.

1. GM North America scheduled to import GTO only 3 years. This started in 2004. It's scheduled to end after the 2006 model year run.

This has been known for quite some time and has been discussed at length here.

2. The 2005 GTO model year is shortened. The 2004 production started in September if I remember, and ended up in showrooms starting in December '04. The 2006 will be in showrooms in October, with the rest of the traditional 2006 models (2 months and 3000 shorter than last year).


Don't count on that showing up in October. Even though the 05 run was to be shortened the 06's will not start to be produced until August if we take the above information on the CV8-z. At at least 2 to 3 months from production to our shore then late October would be a stretch. November or December will probably be when we see the 06's show up.



3. GTO MAY be extended for an additional model year. Holden is prepared for that possibility, and GM-NA is seriously considering it if sales hold up (GTO sales are now running well ahead of expectations).


Possible, but from what I and others have heard and seen the GTO will not meet 2007 model year crash standards or something to that liking. If that is true I doubt we will see an 07 model on the current Monaro platform. Now if it is after the 07 model year then it is possible.

4. MOTOR TRENDS ARTICLE HAS IT WRONG!!!!
a) Zeta is cancelled JUST for North America.
It was cancelled because GM decided to go a different route.
c) Zeta's purpose was saving time & money since Holden was doing it all. In the end, the difference turned out to be minimal.
d) GTO didn't "survive" (anyone actually think GM is going to make an assembly line with just the GTO?).
e) There's 2 RWD programs. US & Australia. GM even admitted this.


This has also been discussed on the site. The car rags seem to be making a lot of wrong predictions on the fate of the GTO. But with patchy information coming out of Detroit on the fate of the GTO it is no wonder.

Again welcome to the site and glad to hear your information. Nothing new, but you didn't necessarily know that being new to the site, but it's OK. Keep on posting. :D
I still say "If you want one, start thinking about it now!" Cheers, Pickles.

Credits - smh.com.au

Goodbye, Monaro - you'll live on down Route 66

By Joshua Dowling Motoring Editor
July 26, 2005


http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/07/25/pontiacmonaro_wideweb__430x300.jpg
Bigger and stronger … the Pontiac version of the Monaro will survive in America.


The classic car of the suburban rev-head has reached the end of the road. But only in Australia.

The modern Monaro, which began life as a drawing on a loungeroom wall and was never intended to go into production, will be phased out at the end of the year.

However, it will live on in the United States, where sales have taken off after the Holden coupe was given a bigger engine and a more aggressive look.

Production of the Monaro was supposed to end last year but those plans changed radically after executives from General Motors took an interest in the car. In the end, the Monaro was sold in the US, Britain and the Middle East wearing Pontiac, Vauxhall and Chevrolet badges respectively.

After a slow start in the the US, sales of the Pontiac GTO between January and June were up 87 per cent on the same period last year; in 2004 the US took delivery of 16,300 GTOs, just shy of the annual target of 18,000 cars. By comparison, about 11,000 Monaros were sold in Australia over the past four years.

Holden hopes that prematurely ending the Monaro's life will preserve the value of the cars - and its legend status. The official line from Holden is that the Monaro, "like all champions", deserves to bow out on its own terms. That means it did not want dealers ripping up the price (and hurting resale values) as sales slowed to a trickle.


"We recognise that we didn't want a Monaro in every driveway," said Holden's spokesman, Jason Laird.

Holden said production of the final batch of 1200 Monaros would start next month.

It has not yet approved the next generation Monaro, but plans to reintroduce the model "some time in the future". The Herald understands this could be as late as 2010.


Source (http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/goodbye-monaro/2005/07/25/1122143783495.html)

Originally posted by guionM@Jul 24 2005, 03:06 PM
You probally don't know me from Adam, and unless you've been to CamaroZ28.com future vehicles community, you'll probally look at my 1st post here, and see me as a un-credible newby. If so that's OK.

For the rest of you, a few items on the Monaro/GTO.

1. GM North America scheduled to import GTO only 3 years. This started in 2004. It's scheduled to end after the 2006 model year run.

2. The 2005 GTO model year is shortened. The 2004 production started in September if I remember, and ended up in showrooms starting in December '04. The 2006 will be in showrooms in October, with the rest of the traditional 2006 models (2 months and 3000 shorter than last year).

3. GTO MAY be extended for an additional model year. Holden is prepared for that possibility, and GM-NA is seriously considering it if sales hold up (GTO sales are now running well ahead of expectations).

4. MOTOR TRENDS ARTICLE HAS IT WRONG!!!!
a) Zeta is cancelled JUST for North America.
B) It was cancelled because GM decided to go a different route.
c) Zeta's purpose was saving time & money since Holden was doing it all. In the end, the difference turned out to be minimal.
d) GTO didn't "survive" (anyone actually think GM is going to make an assembly line with just the GTO?).
e) There's 2 RWD programs. US & Australia. GM even admitted this.

Pontiac will continue to have a high performance RWD vehicle. A future GTO is currently in limbo, but a performance Pontiac coupe isn't. Alot depends on if Holden goes ahead and produces a coupe on their line, or GM moves the large coupe to a version of the RWD chassis that's being produced for one division at the moment.

We all will have a better picture of what's going on within the next 6 months.
Oh man, some guy on a car forum knows better than one of the biggest auto mags. Ya i believe some guy posting on a car site over a magzine, there is some thing called journalistic integrity and if they just put blateted lies into motortrend than they wouldnt be around.

I got no problem with Motor Trend. I've had a subscription since '91.

The problem with Motor Trend is that the information they present is normally 2 months lagging due to the amount of time to bring to press.

The information people are quoting on gminsidenews are coming from GM press releases, off of Lutz's blog, and other reputable sources. Don't get me wrong, there are Yahoos out there that try to tell you that the Camaro is coming out next week and it will have 600hp, but you just have to learn to only accept information that comes from reputable sources.

I've seen it myself ... Motor Trend will say one thing, and then I'll see a release on the web saying something else. 2 months later, Motor Trend will catch up with the current information.

Nothing bad against Motor Trend, but if you want the latest up to date news you need to look elsewhere.

Steve

Originally posted by salbracht@Jul 26 2005, 08:01 AM
I got no problem with Motor Trend. I've had a subscription since '91.

The problem with Motor Trend is that the information they present is normally 2 months lagging due to the amount of time to bring to press.

The information people are quoting on gminsidenews are coming from GM press releases, off of Lutz's blog, and other reputable sources. Don't get me wrong, there are Yahoos out there that try to tell you that the Camaro is coming out next week and it will have 600hp, but you just have to learn to only accept information that comes from reputable sources.

I've seen it myself ... Motor Trend will say one thing, and then I'll see a release on the web saying something else. 2 months later, Motor Trend will catch up with the current information.

Nothing bad against Motor Trend, but if you want the latest up to date news you need to look elsewhere.

Steve
So since motortrend said in this months issue that the GTO will live on past the current body style, has there been any other information that has been realeshed to say other wise.

http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article....&vf=2&bg=1&pp=0 (http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=10046&vf=2&bg=1&pp=0)

Mentions that Holden will have another Monaro "sometime in the future" ... "but there is still a lot of work to be done" ... "perhaps in conjunction with another GMNA platform".

This article talks about the Monaro and not the GTO specifically, but they are essentially the same car, built on the same line.

It's bad news ... I'll agree with you. Now we just need to try to read between the lines as to what all this means in regards to GMs performance car future forecast.

Steve

1. 2007 GTO a go on current platform
2. 2008-09 GTO concept to be shown at NAIAS in 06 along with Sunfire replacement based on Kappa.

Originally posted by nikivee@Jul 26 2005, 12:40 PM
1. 2007 GTO a go on current platform
2. 2008-09 GTO concept to be shown at NAIAS in 06 along with Sunfire replacement based on Kappa.
Thats what motortrend made it sound like. They said that the new GTO will probably appear as a conept at the Detriot auto show in January. Idk if thats true but it seems reasonable.

Nikivee.

Where did you get your info? (I provided a link to a newspaper article from today quoting the head of Holden.)

Without something to back up your information it's nothing more than rumor, and anybody can make up those.

Steve

Originally posted by salbracht@Jul 26 2005, 07:59 PM
Nikivee.

Where did you get your info?* (I provided a link to a newspaper article from today quoting the head of Holden.)

Without something to back up your information it's nothing more than rumor, and anybody can make up those.

Steve

I was the first to report back in January of last year that the 05 GTO was getting the 400HP LS2 and some other tidbits that came to pass when others were pretty **** sure, even those "in the know" that said it would never get the LS2.

I don't make things up. We'll see if it comes to pass next year at NAIAS.

Originally posted by salbracht@Jul 26 2005, 02:59 PM
Nikivee.

Where did you get your info? (I provided a link to a newspaper article from today quoting the head of Holden.)

Without something to back up your information it's nothing more than rumor, and anybody can make up those.

Steve
No hes not lying hes always right about these kind of things. He was the first to report about the LS2 400HP GTO. Lets hope hes right again.

It wasn't possible to engineer another coupe while developing the new Commodore, he said.

"The organisation can only do so much at once."


My advice to my friends in the USA - purchase a GTO while you can. & yes I'm buying a CV8Z ;)

Here is your very first post. Maybe you can ask your "friend at the GM Tech Center" how the GTO continues with the current VZ architecture while they are dropping the Monaro to retool for the VE Commodore?

Steve

------------------------------

nikivee Posted on: Jul 16 2003, 05:17 PM

The 05 GTO will have the LS6 option. Confirmed to me by my friend in GM engineering. GM has one running test mule right now as we speak.

You don't believe me? I'll post back in a year and say I told you so.

Originally posted by salbracht@Jul 27 2005, 12:26 PM
Here is your very first post. Maybe you can ask your "friend at the GM Tech Center" how the GTO continues with the current VZ architecture while they are dropping the Monaro to retool for the VE Commodore?

Steve

------------------------------

nikivee Posted on: Jul 16 2003, 05:17 PM

The 05 GTO will have the LS6 option. Confirmed to me by my friend in GM engineering. GM has one running test mule right now as we speak.

You don't believe me? I'll post back in a year and say I told you so.
who says thats a lie. They probably did make a mule GTO with the LS6 but probably decided to go with the LS2 cause it would be easier to use the new vette engine.

I'm not saying it was a lie. I'm saying he was wrong (which is funny when he says "come back in a year and I'll say I told you so")

He has nothing backing up his current statements either.

I guess we'll have to come back a year from now (might not take that long). If there has not been an announcement indicating the 2007 GTO will continue on the current platform by this time next year, the I guess I'll be the one saying "I told you so".

I won't argue about it anymore. If you want to believe things will continue through 2007, that's fine.

Steve

Just to bring up a point to support salbracts stance.

Remember GM only has a 3 year deal with Holden to produce the GTO. As far as I know this deal has not been extended or a new 1 year deal made. They also had to run this 3 year deal through the United Auto Workers to get it to fly. So 04, 05 and 06 would be those 3 model year GTO's. This DOES NOT include the 2007. I'm not saying that it can't happen. I'm just stating the facts that are out there. There has been no released information on the continuance of the GTO on the Monaro platform past the 3 year deal. And I still have to look up to see if the GTO will fail the 2007 new car standards or if that is for AFTER the 07 model year. Maybe GM has it in the works though. I'd hate to see a gap in the GTO's production. But it doesn't look good right now from what has been released. B)

The entire Holden RWD line comes off of the same basic chassis-structure, and until recently, Holdens were made on the same assembly line in the same plant (the plant's now set up to make the new Zeta and the old "V" cars simultaneously.


You will see a 2007 GTO on the current platform.

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gto28e...8e_20050728.htm (http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gto28e_20050728.htm)

I was going to post that link too, but you beat me to it.

When I read that, I read that the current GTO will end with the 2006 model.

Them saying that a 2008 version on "another" platform I read as Pontiac getting a GTO with Chevy getting a Camaro. I expect we'll see what they look like at the NAIAS. Best news I have heard in a long time. Looking forward to seeing (and driving) the new GTO.

Steve

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alia...topDefault.aspx (http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alias__carpointau/tabID__6491/ArticleID__7458/DesktopDefault.aspx)

Some reasons why the Monaro is being discontinued for Austrialia. Has more to do with emissions not meeting EuroIII specs.

A quote from the article to support why I believe and was told a 2007 GTO was still coming.

There is no way that Holden can afford to lose this many Vauxhall and Pontiac export sales until a decision is made on the Monaro's replacement, which could mean it survives beyond VE as an export.

Originally posted by nikivee@Jul 28 2005, 07:27 AM
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gto28e...8e_20050728.htm (http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gto28e_20050728.htm)



The Monaro and GTO are built in the same plant in Elizabeth, near Melbourne.

;) Elizabeth is in Adelaide.

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alia...topDefault.aspx

This article is encouraging :friday:

Originally posted by 1964GTO+Jul 25 2005, 11:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (1964GTO @ Jul 25 2005, 11:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-guionM@Jul 24 2005, 03:06 PM
You probally don't know me from Adam, and unless you've been to CamaroZ28.com future vehicles community, you'll probally look at my 1st post here, and see me as a un-credible newby. If so that's OK.

For the rest of you, a few items on the Monaro/GTO.

1. GM North America scheduled to import GTO only 3 years. This started in 2004. It's scheduled to end after the 2006 model year run.

2. The 2005 GTO model year is shortened. The 2004 production started in September if I remember, and ended up in showrooms starting in December '04. The 2006 will be in showrooms in October, with the rest of the traditional 2006 models (2 months and 3000 shorter than last year).

3. GTO MAY be extended for an additional model year. Holden is prepared for that possibility, and GM-NA is seriously considering it if sales hold up (GTO sales are now running well ahead of expectations).

4. MOTOR TRENDS ARTICLE HAS IT WRONG!!!!
a) Zeta is cancelled JUST for North America.
B) It was cancelled because GM decided to go a different route.
c) Zeta's purpose was saving time & money since Holden was doing it all. In the end, the difference turned out to be minimal.
d) GTO didn't "survive" (anyone actually think GM is going to make an assembly line with just the GTO?).
e) There's 2 RWD programs. US & Australia. GM even admitted this.

Pontiac will continue to have a high performance RWD vehicle. A future GTO is currently in limbo, but a performance Pontiac coupe isn't. Alot depends on if Holden goes ahead and produces a coupe on their line, or GM moves the large coupe to a version of the RWD chassis that's being produced for one division at the moment.

We all will have a better picture of what's going on within the next 6 months.
Oh man, some guy on a car forum knows better than one of the biggest auto mags. Ya i believe some guy posting on a car site over a magzine, there is some thing called journalistic integrity and if they just put blateted lies into motortrend than they wouldnt be around. [/b][/quote]
You really don't know who GuionM is do you??? LOL!!!

Originally posted by nikivee+Jul 28 2005, 10:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nikivee @ Jul 28 2005, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by 1964GTO@Jul 25 2005, 11:34 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-guionM@Jul 24 2005, 03:06 PM
You probally don't know me from Adam, and unless you've been to CamaroZ28.com future vehicles community, you'll probally look at my 1st post here, and see me as a un-credible newby. If so that's OK.

For the rest of you, a few items on the Monaro/GTO.

1. GM North America scheduled to import GTO only 3 years. This started in 2004. It's scheduled to end after the 2006 model year run.

2. The 2005 GTO model year is shortened. The 2004 production started in September if I remember, and ended up in showrooms starting in December '04. The 2006 will be in showrooms in October, with the rest of the traditional 2006 models (2 months and 3000 shorter than last year).

3. GTO MAY be extended for an additional model year. Holden is prepared for that possibility, and GM-NA is seriously considering it if sales hold up (GTO sales are now running well ahead of expectations).

4. MOTOR TRENDS ARTICLE HAS IT WRONG!!!!
a) Zeta is cancelled JUST for North America.
B) It was cancelled because GM decided to go a different route.
c) Zeta's purpose was saving time & money since Holden was doing it all. In the end, the difference turned out to be minimal.
d) GTO didn't "survive" (anyone actually think GM is going to make an assembly line with just the GTO?).
e) There's 2 RWD programs. US & Australia. GM even admitted this.

Pontiac will continue to have a high performance RWD vehicle. A future GTO is currently in limbo, but a performance Pontiac coupe isn't. Alot depends on if Holden goes ahead and produces a coupe on their line, or GM moves the large coupe to a version of the RWD chassis that's being produced for one division at the moment.

We all will have a better picture of what's going on within the next 6 months.
Oh man, some guy on a car forum knows better than one of the biggest auto mags. Ya i believe some guy posting on a car site over a magzine, there is some thing called journalistic integrity and if they just put blateted lies into motortrend than they wouldnt be around.
You really don't know who GuionM is do you??? LOL!!! [/b][/quote]
He is GOD! The most powerful being in the universe posts on car forums in his free time, makes me feel like im not wasting much time right now.

No. he is an industry insider who has written many articles in automotive magazines Einstien. :rolleyes:

The new Camaro will be built on a streached Soltis platform to fit below the Corvette at about the GTO price.The GTO is introuble because of all the negitivity from the people that never rode in or drove it.Know body that has done one of these things is compaining.A lot of negitivity was on this and other auto sites by jealous rice owners and in perticular the old car hobbiests who only want trucks to haul(god forbid driving)their cars to shows or custom shop.I've never seen a car survive as much negitivity as the GTO has gotten,much of it from Pontiac loyalists that never bought anything over $20,ooo.A BMW or Mercedies owner can appriciate the GTO,but not people who have never been in a quality automobile.It's not appriciated by non enthusiasts for what it can do at a bargan price.Americans bought the hype of European manufacturers claim of sofistication,and the Asian quality bull****.Untill buyers stop following the trendies and realise what we have hear good cars like the GTO will never sell well enough to survive.That's why GM has developed the Kappa platform.They can proffitably produce 10,000 cars of one design so they can catch nich croud.Knowbody will sell 200,000 of one car ever again.The GTO was the first trial.

The camaro and next GTO will share platforms......I read somewhere that the 2005's are selling like hotcakes.....

They're talking about a shortage come this fall when the '06 comes out. What a difference a year makes , right?

BTW, how much is insurance for a GTO? That's what killed the F-car, because the people who wanted and could buy it ( young,18+ guys) can't afford the insurance. No one is going to pay four-figure premiums for a $20,000 dollar car.

I pay normal rates on the GTO. Full coverage for a 05 is $900. I am 58 years old with a clean record.

Originally posted by silverstreek@Sep 15 2005, 08:22 PM
The new Camaro will be built on a streached Soltis platform to fit below the Corvette at about the GTO price.The GTO is introuble because of all the negitivity from the people that never rode in or drove it.Know body that has done one of these things is compaining.A lot of negitivity was on this and other auto sites by jealous rice owners and in perticular the old car hobbiests who only want trucks to haul(god forbid driving)their cars to shows or custom shop.I've never seen a car survive as much negitivity as the GTO has gotten,much of it from Pontiac loyalists that never bought anything over $20,ooo.A BMW or Mercedies owner can appriciate the GTO,but not people who have never been in a quality automobile.It's not appriciated by non enthusiasts for what it can do at a bargan price.Americans bought the hype of European manufacturers claim of sofistication,and the Asian quality bull****.Untill buyers stop following the trendies and realise what we have hear good cars like the GTO will never sell well enough to survive.That's why GM has developed the Kappa platform.They can proffitably produce 10,000 cars of one design so they can catch nich croud.Knowbody will sell 200,000 of one car ever again.The GTO was the first trial.
The Kappa (solstice) platform for the new camaro is a rumor, and not likely to happen, but it is an option.

It's also not going to be as expensive or fast as the GTO as the GTO is on the heels of the Vette as is. The New Camaro will be cheaper, a tad slower, and with a cheaper interior feel.

GM plans an all new GTO for 2008(Autoweek)oct 24,2005.As has happened many times recently readers of auto magazines adopt opinions of writers as their own instead of checking cars out on their own and forming their own opinion.Apperently many readers don't bother checking where the investers who own these magazines come from or live.Most are forien owned and have been for the past 20 years.They are used to creat market share for manufacturers that want to enter a market or expand it.Just because the magazines have an American address,office,etc doesn't mean its owned by Americans.Writers are paid to inform you of what the owners want you to believe and have been extreemly successful.GM knows now and Ford learned that you cannot design cars for hobbiests.They live in the past where their comfortable and only buy trucks to haul their cars around.If anyone else is to blame for the failure of the GTO it is the Pontiac faitfull and web sites just like this one who have members that believe what they hear instead of getting their own opinions buy actually experiencing products for them selves.Go back on your web site and read the opinions that you your selves wrote and you'll know longer wounder what killed one of the best cars to come from GM in years.I have met the enemy and he is us.If and when the GTO is killed the value of the cars producted will continue to fall just like any other used car.In thirty years the price may increase for original low milage cars that have been hidden in barns and garages and haven't been molested with aftermarket(forien)parts.To those of us that didn't follow the crowd and went to dealers and drove the car bought the car and have been smiling uncontrolably ever since and hope that the people who find faults in everything find happyness in their mirror.We don't have time to look as we're going too fast.Buy forien and sell your country.