I must say I'm disappointed. The weather was terrible for racing. 95 degrees, 35% humidity, 3300 DA.

First pass it ran 14.50, second pass 14.60. Both runs with fans on low speed. 1200 rpm launch. 2.2, 2.3 60 ft. 40 psi in tires.

3rd pass, 14.25,14.14,14.25, 13.96,... 2.1 60 fts. 28 psi in tires. 1 fan on high. removed plastic valve covers. Figured they were holding heat and with the hood scoops open I figured the air would go across the coils. I think maybe the hood scoops actually trap air, it needs some kind of deflector to make it turn down instead of getting trapped in the metal pocket. Stick your hand in there and you'll see what I mean. Left at 1000 rpm. All runs in 3rd gear.

In a word, "heat". The car is obviously affected big time by heat. Just 1 fan on high and it dropped .5 second. Next up is both fans on high, 160 thermo, and figure out some way to get more air in and keep the intake tract cooler. You couldn't touch the 90 degree elbow after a run. I think with the hot humid air and high compression, the car just couldn't keep the timing up. The car felt dead out of the whole, but when you were on the highway and the car was cooler it pulled noticebly harder.

My other problem was my reaction times were all .1, .1, .119,.108. I was leaving at the same time my TA convertible left. 60 ft.s were about the same, so I am guessing the car doesn't react as fast with the throttle by wire. This means I either have to deep stage or leave in between bulbs. Yeah right...

Anyone take out the drivers headlight to get more air in?

Can you do the throttle body coolant bypass on an 05'?

It didnt seem like there was collant going through there. It looks like it goes from the rad, to a small pipe on the drivers head, then splits back over to the pass head, under the throttle body. Doesn't appear like it actually goes through the tb like on the ls1's.

Anyone make a heat shield for infront of the elbow?

www.outlawpontiacdragseries.com

Your answer lies in the first line of your post...DA of 3300'

Like Papa Johns: better air, better ET :D

Get a 160 thermostat and tune(when available). No TB coolant lines. Headlight would have to have the bumper to come off, too much work for little gain.

Originally posted by Rob@Jun 13 2005, 12:37 PM
Your answer lies in the first line of your post...DA of 3300'

Like Papa Johns: better air, better ET :D

Get a 160 thermostat and tune(when available). No TB coolant lines. Headlight would have to have the bumper to come off, too much work for little gain.
Your altitude will play a major factor in your times over the heat...

How do I correct those numbers back to 1200 DA? That's typically what I see around here.

Is the SLP 160 for $20.00 the cheapest or can I get one through GM/ Autozone?

DA changes every day. Summer months are brutal for DA usually.

I got my t-stat from TByrne. Any vendor should carry them.

Anyone have an install document for a 160 thermo into a LS2? I can't find one anywhere.

I have been watching my water temp for the past week in different driving conditions. The service mode is really handy, and I think its pretty accurate. Generally, when its 75 degrees out, the car runs 190-195 on the highway and 200-208 sitting at lights. Its noticeable slower when leaving from a light at 200+ degrees than 190.

I installed a 160 thermo this weekend and now it runs 180 on the highway and 185-190 at lights.

I was thinking of ways to turn on both fans on high. I think what I am going to do is make a switch to disconnect the fans from the computer and put them manually on a switch inside the cabin. If I put 30 amp fuses on it, I think it would be safe. It would only be live when at the track. To be clear, I'm talking about running my own wiring to turn the fans on, not triggering the relays. If you take the fuse box jumper idea and just run it into the cabin, that would work, but it matters on what order you turn the switches on, and you would need 3 of them. You have to turn both on low first and then flick the double pole relay to kick them both on high. Otherwise you blow a fuse.

I played around with the idea of yanking the headlight out at the track. If you pull out the 90 elbow that goes into the front of the box from the hood duct, its a straight shot into the airbox from behind the headlight. You can not get the headlight out though without taking either the facia off or the fender. Sucks. That would have been nice. It doesn't look like there is any room to get from the inside of the bumper up to the airbox either.

I will be trying out some type of insulation on the elbow and maf. I think wrapping atleast the maf so the temp sensor doesn't get soaked would help more than wrapping the elbow.

Anyone have a writeup on how to relocate the temp sensor from the maf to another stand alone sensor (ls1?) in the airbox?

Are you sure the temp sensor is in the in the MAF? Usually the temp sensor is connected to the block somewhere or near the a coolant passage. having it in the MAF doesn't make sence to me as it would just read intake air temps and engine bay temps.

Sorry I wasn't more clear. It was a separate thought. The incoming air temperature on an ls2 is sensed through the temp sensor in the maf. LS1's are a separate sensor in the intake tract, usually right before the maf. I read somewhere where the corvette guys have been splicing ls1 sensors in and running it to the airbox so it can more accurately sense the air temp. I haven't been able to find any instructions on doing that.

Originally posted by PurplePiss@Jun 22 2005, 10:18 AM
The service mode is really handy
How do we get into this mode?

Hold the mode and set button down. Hold them down while turning the ignition to on. Use the mode button then to scroll through all kinds of stuff.

Thanks for the info I'll check it out

Change of plans. I want to be able to turn the fans on whenever I want. So, how do I turn on the fans by triggering the relay? I would like to know specifically what pins I would need to ground in order to turn on both fans on high, and just the passenger fan on high. I tried grounding pin 86 on all the relays, but can only get low speed and passenger on high.

Originally posted by PurplePiss@Jun 23 2005, 08:26 AM
Sorry I wasn't more clear. It was a separate thought. The incoming air temperature on an ls2 is sensed through the temp sensor in the maf. LS1's are a separate sensor in the intake tract, usually right before the maf. I read somewhere where the corvette guys have been splicing ls1 sensors in and running it to the airbox so it can more accurately sense the air temp. I haven't been able to find any instructions on doing that.
Look at the MAF at the connector, you'll see where 2 pins go straight down into the thermistor. Extract the 2 pins from the connector (they are not polarity sensitive), and mod from there. Try a 2.5k ohm resistor inserted into the pins to get to a more desirable spark vs. IAT table. For even more aggressive timing, try a 4.7k ohm resistor, just make sure you're running at least 93 octane. The 4.7k ohm puts the timing at its most aggressive point in the map.

Thanks tek. Do you have a run down of resistors that tells the computer what temperature it is? For example 4.7 = 50 degrees (just making that up)?

Can you just splice an LS1 temp sensor into those 2 wires and run it to the airbox?

Thanks for your help


Anyone know how to turn both fans on high by grounding the relays? Please be specific.

Jason

Just found this on another board. Can anyone tell me if it looks realistic? I read somewhere that 50 F is the most aggressive you can get?

9420 ohms = 32 *F - 0 *C
7280 ohms = 41 *F - 5 *C
5670 ohms = 50 *F - 10 *C
4450 ohms = 59 *F - 15 *C
3520 ohms = 68 *F - 20 *C
2796 ohms = 77 *F - 25 *C
2238 ohms = 86 *F - 30 *C
1802 ohms = 95 *F - 35 *C
1459 ohms = 104 *F - 40 *C
1188 ohms = 113 *F - 45 *C
973 ohms = 122 *F - 50 *C
667 ohms = 140 *F - 60 *C
467 ohms = 158 *F - 70 *C
332 ohms = 176 *F - 80 *C
241 ohms = 194 *F - 90 *C
177 ohms = 212 *F - 100 *C
132 ohms = 230 *F - 110 *C
100 ohms = 248 *F - 120 *C
77 ohms = 266 *F - 130 *C
60 ohms = 284 *F - 140 *C
47 ohms = 302 *F - 150 *

I was looking again at trying to trigger the relays to turn the fans on, but now I have a question.

Is there a combo of relays that turns BOTH fans on high? I'm thinking not. That's why I think I may run 2 switches and hot wire them each to a +12. If the car does have a way to turn both on high using the relays, please let me know.

Any help much appreciated.

Anyone know if the car has a way to turn both fans on high or do I need to hot wire them to get it?

Thanks

Anyone know where I can get a wiring schematic of the fans? I have looked everywhere and can't find anything.

Welp, 3 mods down.

First was a 160 thermo. Car runs 180-185 now instead of 195-205.

Second was 2 relays to turn on the fans on low, passenger high, and both high. Works great, but sets off the check engine light? Does that affect performance? I am triggering pin 86 on relays 1 and 3.

Third mod: I took out the scoops for some fresh air and turned the fans on high. I put my hand up by the windshield and noticed I couldn't feel any air. Hmmm.. Popped the hood and removed the gasket that seals the car to the hood. Tried it again and could feel some air coming out there. Then I noticed that in the center, there is a pathway right inbetween the wipers, so I notched the sheetmetal and bent the lip down. About 5 inches. I will post a picture soon. Works great. You can really feel the air coming out of there with just the fans, and I'm sure at speed the air is really sailing through there. With the scoops out, anyone think that air pocket is causing resistance or does it fill up with air and then deflect air behind it down?

Removed the GTO plastic valve covers. These have to hold in heat and with the scoops out, I'm hoping the air will cool the coil packs.

Furture mods:

Insulate the intake tract and MAF.

Rig up dual throw relay to run stock temp sensor and second choice of resistors (detailed above). Anyone have info on using this mod? Does the car ignore the sensor after awhile? When you tell it its 50 degrees out, how long before it makes changes to timing?

Exhaust. Thinking about putting cherry bombs in or flowmasters. Ran without mufflers the other day and even though the sound was trapped under the car, I know it would be too loud. Had a strange sound when it shifted under WOT. Probably due to TAM.

CAI: I had the front end off again this weekend to replace a headlight due to a fight with a re-tread on the highway (grr). Has anyone relocated the overflow bottle for the rad? Its located right infront of the driver front wheel. On the passenger side, they mounted the washer bottle in the same location. I was thinking this would have to be removed to be able to get decent air up to the airbox. Removing the driving light didn't seem like it would help much as you could make a duct to get down the the road just past the facia. Does the radiator pull water from that bottle when it cools off or is it just a catch? Could you relocate it?

Trying to get all these mods done before Norwalk.

Comments welcome,
Jason

No comments? Nobody out there is modifying an 05'?

Removing the driving light didn't seem like it would help much as you could make a duct to get down the the road just past the facia.

I agree here. If you are mechanically inclined someone could probably rig one up.

I know the Grand Prix crew loves to pull the left headlight to duct more air in, but the GTO's isn't quite the same behind as the GP's. I also really dislike the look of a missing headlight at the drags even if it is temporary. I would even wonder if the slight tradeoff for more air would be negated by the slight bit of aerodynamic drag you would be introducing with a bid open space right up front plowing through the air. Just a thought. :)

Good luck let us know what you come up with and how you run. :D

I opened the airbox up by drilling two holes to the front of it, behind the headlight. That is my only mod.

Temperature was between 85 and 90 with over 90% humidity for these runs. We actually had dew form on the cars between runs.

1st run with hood plugs in. 14.2 at 100. I didn't shift out of 3rd which was a mistake. 2nd was a hot lap, another mistake, 14.1 at 101.

I let the car cool for 30 minutes and removed the hood plugs and ran a 13.7 at 104.

Next run was after a 30 minute cool down and with the fuel rail covers off 13.6 at 106.

Next run I let the car cool way down, 45-50 minutes, with the fuel rail covers off amd hood plugs out. I also iced the intake and the airbox and MAF. 13.3 at 106.5.

I have a best of 12.895 at 109 on a 60-65 degree low humidity day, but the car had only 1700 miles on it. I'm looking forward to November and some more cool days to run this beast.

Tommorrow, if it doesn't rain, is a Gainesville raceway day. Anyone heading that way?

http://userweb.suscom.net/~jasonrogers/PICT0357_resize.JPG
http://userweb.suscom.net/~rogers3/PICT0358_resize.JPG
http://userweb.suscom.net/~rogers3/PICT0359_resize.JPG
http://userweb.suscom.net/~rogers3/PICT0360_resize.JPG