Well I installed the canned Predator tune today and took it out for a quick spin to get some first impressions. I'll be taking it out shortly to get some G-Tech runs in to see if has improved my times or not.

First impressions:

1. First thing I noticed is at startup. Engine "lopes" and shakes a little more. I should have figured that, but I LIKE IT. :D

2. Midrange seems to have a little more kick to it. Haven't driven it enough to tell about low and high rpms.

3. From a 60mph roll I went WOT, A4 kicked down into 2nd and I actually got a 2-3 shift chirp. :D That's the first time that's happened. And it's a hot and muggy day here already, in cool air and a cooler road I may expect a little more.

Now I've got to go out and get some G-Tech times as well as use the real time monitoring features to make sure I'm not getting knock.

I'll let you all know what I find out. :)

Cool...how easy was it to use? I am curious about that as well.

Very easy to use. It walks you right through it. I haven't even messed around with the shift pressures/points and shift times yet. And I'm diggin' the 2-3 chirp I get now. (Hey throw us A4 owners a bone). I'm also very excited about the real time data, it's not like a full blown program like HP Tuners with the laptop and all, but I do like to see the IAT's, ECT's and Knock readings. In fact I just cruised through town today to get used to the real time data function and saw my IAT's jump up to 125 degrees a couple of times. It's about 95 degrees here today, hot muggy air is a b!tch. I'll let all know when I get some more info. SOTP dyno is not telling me much today as I said because the air is so d@mn worthless today. I'll be checking the forecast for the next cool front. Probably October ;)

It seems that you have experienced a performance boost. I can't wait to read about the comparison to your baseline runs. Does the Predator log A/F? I would be curious to know what you had before the Predator tune. I guess I am curious to know how conservative the stock tune is.

-K

Very easy to use. It walks you right through it. I haven't even messed around with the shift pressures/points and shift times yet. And I'm diggin' the 2-3 chirp I get now. (Hey throw us A4 owners a bone). I'm also very excited about the real time data, it's not like a full blown program like HP Tuners with the laptop and all, but I do like to see the IAT's, ECT's and Knock readings. In fact I just cruised through town today to get used to the real time data function and saw my IAT's jump up to 125 degrees a couple of times. It's about 95 degrees here today, hot muggy air is a b!tch. I'll let all know when I get some more info. SOTP dyno is not telling me much today as I said because the air is so d@mn worthless today. I'll be checking the forecast for the next cool front. Probably October ;)

well it should be cooling down tomorrow for ya. the temps dropped to 77f today here in east nebraska so id say you may have a window of oppotunity sunday.

well it should be cooling down tomorrow for ya. the temps dropped to 77f today here in east nebraska so id say you may have a window of oppotunity sunday.

Well it did cool down, but with the cooler air came the rain and soaked roads. :( Hopefully I can get out this week in some cooler air.

Does the Predator log A/F? I would be curious to know what you had before the Predator tune. I guess I am curious to know how conservative the stock tune is.

I don't think so unless I'm looking at the wrong things, I'll try to list the parameters it measure in real-time.

you guys can download the Predator's user manual in PDF format for free, from the diablosport website. Might answer a lot of questions.

Well I did get 3 runs in this morning in the cooler air. (G-Tech) Air temp was down to about 70 this morning, much better than the 90 or so the other day when I tried to get some baseline runs before my Predator install. I noticed the IAT's read right at 80 degrees for my runs instead of 100 for the runs in the heat.

Todays results.

1st run: Embarrasing, I roasted the tires off a BT of about 1500 rpm. Makes me think the Predator has gotten rid of the torque management down low, it wasn't this bad/good before I installed the program.

2nd run: 13.51 @ 109.6, much better launch, but still had wheelspin

3rd run: 13.42 @ 110.8, nailed this launch with a BT @ 1250 rpms, it hooked and went, probably because the tires were warmed up by now. This is my 2nd fastest run on the G-Tech and bested a pre-Predator tune time of 13.48.

My only concern at this time is my trap speeds. (I know the G-Tech is way off on traps but you can still compare the speeds run to run.) Before the tune I recorded a 113.1 and 114.2 traps. After the tune I'm getting 108.6, 109.6 and 110.8. These are 3 to 4 mph off. I'm wondering if the canned Predator tune is freeing up my HP/TQ down low and in the mid range over the high rpm.

I still haven't messed around with shift parameters yet or any other tuning. I am going to reinstall the original tune and see if the trap speeds go back up. The thing is I ran a better time with the canned tune than without it. Sure wish I had a dyno to see what the deal is.

I'm also going to prep it next time like I would at a track. (Drop the rear tire pressures, lose the spare/jack and a bunch of other odds and ends, etc.) I'll see if I can't drop my times on the G-Tech. Keep y'all posted if you're interested. :)

Keep y'all posted if you're interested.

I am definitely interested. I was pulling for you to drop into the 12s.

-K

I am definitely interested. I was pulling for you to drop into the 12s.

I wish! :)

Maybe headers and an underdrive pulley and I could be flirting. Of course these aren't true track runs either. Just have to hunt some Rustang GT's down now. ;)

Got my Predator this week and installed the "Tune" today. I hadn't driven the car in so long, it's hard to tell if it made a marked difference. lol...HOWEVER, the elimination of the CAGS made it WELL worth it. lol. Now all I gotta do is figure out how I'm going to lower my final drive ratio. I could easily just buy a 3.91 and pay 3 times what they're worth (compared to the average set of gears) or I could wait til this top secret 8.8" ford IRS retrofit becomes public knowledge....because THEN I could get a 4.30 like I want.

Note: I already HAVE an 8.8" IRS Ford rearend, laying under the bench in my garage. lol.

Got my Predator this week and installed the "Tune" today. I hadn't driven the car in so long, it's hard to tell if it made a marked difference.

Would you recommend the Predator as being worth the money if one were to pay retail ($399.99)?

-K

I think so. But mainly because it allows you to recalibrate your speedo, if you wanna swap gears. You can disable several OBDII codes, so you can go without cats, etc. I got mine used. I only paid $180 for it. I'd probably be reluctant to pay $400 for one though. lol. Look around, you can pick them up much cheaper. Oh...btw....the '05 hood that I bought on ebay arrived destroyed. Looked like it got dropped off the truck, edgewise...from about 900' feet. Didn't accept it.

Just to update, no runs recently due to the Amazon jungle heat here. But I have removed torque management and bumped up shift pressures and lowered shift times by a hair. In fact I'm thinking of bumping them closer to the max to get some snap/bang shifts. I'm not sure I'll be brave enough, don't want to grenade the tranny yet, but we'll see.

Soon as I get some G-Tech times in a little cooler air I'll post them up. Cool fronts are few and far between this time of year around my area. :(

Ya might have to do some night time runs! Just have to be alittle more careful.

should cool down slightly the rest of the week here in eastern nebraska its supposed to be highs in the mid to upper 80s .much better than the 97 we had yesterday.

Ya might have to do some night time runs! Just have to be alittle more careful.

I've thought about it but I really don't like not being able to see. One deer on the road at 100 mph and it's all she wrote. :o

i have HP Tuners and i downloaded the Pedator performance tune and flashed it to my VCM to get me started. altho it helped i ended up adding a lot of timing and made many adjustments to my VE and some small stuff that really kicked the car in the ass. those IATs are interesting tho aren't they? getting those down and reading them fast is of prime importance. you can see what i did that worked very well here http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79664

Svede, I have followed through the thread listed in you above post. I have to say, "Wow!" I followed through both phases and found what I read to be very insightful, well written, and interesting. Now all you need to do is fabricate and market this setup. Good work, man.

-K

Interesting stuff thanks for the link.

I've noticed my IAT's will always read about 9 to 10 degrees above the air temperature when up to speed. I have the K&N aircharger BTW. In fact today it was about 86 degrees outside and my IAT's would read about 95. There are a couple of other factors that may be leading to a higher IAT temp over air temp. I'm getting all these readings in the daytime with a BRIGHT sunshine on the road. I guarantee the air temperature above the road surface (where the intake is drawing the air) has got to be warmer than ambient air temperature. I'm going to test this theory by going out at night (no sunlight) and seeing how close the IAT's correspond to air temps. Now of course the road will still be warmer and the air will still be a little warmer to due to radiational heating. But it shouldn't be as bad as during the day.

I have thought about purchasing an IAT harness that would move the sensor away from its current position of next to the radiator and into the boxed in cone filter area. But I have a feeling this isn't going to reduce the IAT much at all. Besides, the computer is going to pull timing regardless. In fact I went WOT today and saw knock retard jump up to 4.35 degrees!!! I'd love to be able to play with the IAT tables like on HP tuners. But then I think I'd be worried to death about knock/detonation. That air that it's pulling in is still hot/humid and thin.

Short of nitrous or a Fall/Winter I think I'm just going to have to grin and bear this cr@ppy air and the subsequent HP lowering that accompanies it.

Keep the information coming though, I love discussions like these. :)

thread hijack: thanks, easy to do with hardware store parts and a filter for under $100. the only thing is if you don't have a MAF tube like my JHP you can get a rubber elbow fitting to fit on your throttle body. the thermisitor i got from Omega (http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=44000_THERMIS_ELEMENTS) for $15. the intake kicks butt
unhijack thread :)

Interesting stuff thanks for the link.

I've noticed my IAT's will always read about 9 to 10 degrees above the air temperature when up to speed. I have the K&N aircharger BTW. In fact today it was about 86 degrees outside and my IAT's would read about 95. There are a couple of other factors that may be leading to a higher IAT temp over air temp. I'm getting all these readings in the daytime with a BRIGHT sunshine on the road. I guarantee the air temperature above the road surface (where the intake is drawing the air) has got to be warmer than ambient air temperature. I'm going to test this theory by going out at night (no sunlight) and seeing how close the IAT's correspond to air temps. Now of course the road will still be warmer and the air will still be a little warmer to due to radiational heating. But it shouldn't be as bad as during the day.

I have thought about purchasing an IAT harness that would move the sensor away from its current position of next to the radiator and into the boxed in cone filter area. But I have a feeling this isn't going to reduce the IAT much at all. Besides, the computer is going to pull timing regardless. In fact I went WOT today and saw knock retard jump up to 4.35 degrees!!! I'd love to be able to play with the IAT tables like on HP tuners. But then I think I'd be worried to death about knock/detonation. That air that it's pulling in is still hot/humid and thin.

Short of nitrous or a Fall/Winter I think I'm just going to have to grin and bear this cr@ppy air and the subsequent HP lowering that accompanies it.

Keep the information coming though, I love discussions like these. :)

i was thinking the same thing but i logged IATs last saturday when it was 92-95* here. at 3:00 in the afternoon in the bright sun i was getting between 2-4* above ambient. i've tried several variations and the stocker thermistor lags actual air temps. the stocker could take up to 5 minutes of highway driving to come down. the Omega one responds in 4-7 seconds. that's why i went with a tiny fast acting one. altho the thermistor is right after the filter, with the heavily insulated intake i'm confident i'm not getting any significant heat up of the air from there to the TB. a buddy of mine and i are working on adapting these priciples to his LPE intake. i'll let you know how it works out.

Has there been any serious work on, or thought given to, using water to lower IATs? It seems that evaporation, which is a cooling process, could be used to substantially lower IATs, assuming the IAT sensor is properly located. I had read a post in the past that alluded to this. In fact, if I recall correctly an experiment was conducted in which the air filter was wetted, but not to the point of saturation, and the IATs measured. The results of this experiment were favorable in terms of lowered IATs. Maybe I need to pull out a piece of paper and a pencil and start calculating. How cool would it be to get IATs lower than ambient?

-K

i'm not sure that would work very easily. altho a wet filter would lower IAT through evaporation you shouldn't have the water evaporate directly in the intake as that would raise your DA and take you back a step. an intercooler type of thing would be bulky, expensive and questionably effective. i like the thinking tho :)

Yep what svede said, I would think the the density of the intake air would be raised.

Speaking of crazy talk, instead of water how about another combustable liquid like rubbing alcohol or methanol. Put a little alcohol or methanol on your finger and blow and you'll feel the cooling effects of evaporation much more readily than water, and on top of that wouldn't it also be combustable? (Not sure what it would do to the A/F mixture, I'm no combustion expert)

i've tried several variations and the stocker thermistor lags actual air temps. the stocker could take up to 5 minutes of highway driving to come down.

Wow, really? That is a long time. I'll watch my IAT on startup and it lags but it seems to be only 5 to 10 seconds behind. And on the highway it seems to take maybe 20 to 30 seconds. I'll time it next time I'm out. If your IAT's are only 2-4 above ambient it could be I'm getting about a 5 degree heat soak. I've got to get back out and do some data collection. :)

it might be possible that some of the lag was due to the intake pulling from under the car. ever feel the heat roll out when you're at a stop light? the shielding helps keep the air from recirculating. before the shielding even at highway speed it was sucking some of that heat over. at the track you'll see a bigbenefit from this system. people that have logged there have heat soak pretty bad. a few seconds makes a huge difference in the quarter mile.

a little update. today i went to the track. it was about 77* and very humid. the track sucked and my best was only a 13.08 but my IATs were 5* above ambient staging, dropping to ambient within 3 seconds of launch. i logged anothers LPE and couldn't get any temps anywhere near mine in a 1/4 mile run.

but my IATs were 5* above ambient staging, dropping to ambient within 3 seconds of launch.

You da' man! ;)

What track did you run at?

US-131 dragway in Martin, Michigan. everytime i've been there the track wouldn't hook. everybody was having the same problem. i have DRs and with a massive burnout and 18# in the tires i still spun all the way thru first but i did chirp all 4 gears :). i think the car has a 12.7 in her the way she sits.

How much timing advance does the Predator add and where?

Can you monitor KR with the Predator?

Does it change RPM redline? Cooling fan turn on temp?

What does it change specifically?

i don't have one but i've looked at the predator performance tune and it added a few degrees. at 4800 RPM (~peak torque and it's a "low point") it's 20*. mine's tuned with HP Tuners and it's about 2* higher across the board

Yep what svede said, I would think the the density of the intake air would be raised.

Speaking of crazy talk, instead of water how about another combustable liquid like rubbing alcohol or methanol. Put a little alcohol or methanol on your finger and blow and you'll feel the cooling effects of evaporation much more readily than water, and on top of that wouldn't it also be combustable? (Not sure what it would do to the A/F mixture, I'm no combustion expert)



Wow, really? That is a long time. I'll watch my IAT on startup and it lags but it seems to be only 5 to 10 seconds behind. And on the highway it seems to take maybe 20 to 30 seconds. I'll time it next time I'm out. If your IAT's are only 2-4 above ambient it could be I'm getting about a 5 degree heat soak. I've got to get back out and do some data collection. :)

Youd never want to inject alcohol into your CAI youd cause a fire . Alcohol is excellent fuel by itself but as far as injecting any combustables before the intake manifold it should never be attempted. water injection does work they used to do it to high performance aircraft engines (both piston and jet). It wouldnt work well as was previously stated however all engines are designed with water ingestion as a normal factor so a car could in effect run fine with a wetted intake filter. will it help performance ? doubtful.

Youd never want to inject alcohol into your CAI youd cause a fire . Alcohol is excellent fuel by itself but as far as injecting any combustables before the intake manifold it should never be attempted. water injection does work they used to do it to high performance aircraft engines (both piston and jet). It wouldnt work well as was previously stated however all engines are designed with water ingestion as a normal factor so a car could in effect run fine with a wetted intake filter. will it help performance ? doubtful.
My original thought was not to use water as a means to gain performance so much as it was to maintain that which we already have. That is, the water evaporation would be used to keep the IATs low enough to prevent the computer from pulling timing. As we all know, these cars a good performers, but heat soak is a major issue. If we could sufficiently reduce IATs, we could mitigate the issues associated heat soak, and subsequently eliminate the concern that we are going to have to deal with less than optimal performance on a hot summer day after having been tied up in traffic. During this thought exercise I have concluded that this is not the solution to the problem. Besides if we really want to cool the incoming air, we might as well do it right and use some funny gas. :D

-K

How much timing advance does the Predator add and where?

Can you monitor KR with the Predator?

Does it change RPM redline? Cooling fan turn on temp?

What does it change specifically?

1. I haven't played with it yet, I'll let you know.

2. Yes

3. Yes and yes

4. Check out their website. www.diablosport.com

Thanks. Appreciate it greatly. I understand the benefit of a Predator and similar tuning is the ability to quickly reset programming to stock levels when needed to retain warranty.