The original announcement stated $33k but that number has since been withdrawn. There has been a huge variance in the US to Australian exchange rate and demand is definitely high. Is this going to be a performance bargain or does GM want to milk every penny out of this?

I prefer to remain naive and believe they will stick to their original number. If it is more than I will complain but still buy it!!


:laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce:

I think they'll never tell us! :rolleyes:

Yeah that makes sense. We will just give them our account numbers and they will just pull an amount of money out every month depending on market conditions.

:laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce:

I think GM saw us coming a mile away! Look at how we are.
Even if they raised the price alittle most of us would still buy it!
I think they have us hook, line and sinker! :rolleyes:

I agree. I think GM initially laid the $33k to see how many buyers the pre-sales program would draw in. GM has probably been analyzing those numbers to project overall demand, which in turn will help them come up with a MSRP for the 04 model . However, I've read in numerous publications that GM wants this car to sell under $35K. I think that we can expect the max MSRP to be no higher than $35k. Additionally this is the re-birth of the American muscle car, traditionally these cars have been priced so that it's reasonably affordable. Pontiac does not want to screw this up, and I think they know that by setting a price above $35k, that most Americans consider that out of their price range. And let's be honest here, most of us probably made significant adjustments to make room for this car financially, I know I have. However, GM has stated that this car's main market are those who have an annual combined income of $120K, so I would expect that the MSRP of the 05 model to go up a few thousand, and I've even read reports that's what GM plans to do. I think that if your price range is around $30k-$35k for a performance car then this is a car that will not be touched in price/performance range for around $15K-$20K more. But if GM decides to up the price in the 05 model, then you better get your pre-order placed. Because once Pontiac starts the full blown marketing campaign, you can kiss your chances of getting your hands on a 04 GTO.

I voted for $38K. I posted on this topic before a couple weeks ago, and now the exchange rate is even worse. If you take the base price of the Monaro and multiply it by the 10/21/03 exchange rate you get...$41,521 (US).

Exchange rates don't really come into play. If they did cars from Europe, Japan, Mexico, etc. would be constantly changing. If GM tries to justify 'jacking" the MSRP due to exchange rates then they have a lot 'splaining to do regarding other models as well.

Remember, Holden is part of GM - the accounting between subsidiaries with parts coming in from all over the world would be absolutely nuts if daily exchange rates were constantly factored in.

Personally I don't give a rip about the exchange rate, that's GM's problem not mine! As I've stated before if the price goes much above the $33,000 mark one of you lucky devils with all that extra money to throw around can have mine. I like this car but not enough to be raped on price. I have no doubt however that there are 16,000 + people out there that will buy it no mater what the price is, FORD did it with the T-Birds for a while... :rolleyes: Hell look at the people on eBay willing to pay $10,000 over sticker. But sooner than later you run out of these people and you have to go back to selling vehicles to your average customers and when they've been left with a bad taste in their mouth from a vehicle they wanted to purchase that's been overpriced it doesn't bode well for that company. It's a competitive market and if GM wants to build their share it'll take more than the sale of 16,000 or so GTO's. As I've stated before loyal GM customers that are pleased with their GM vehicles (including the purchase price) have a lot of influence on what others buy. Screw-ups have a way of sticking to you.... just ask a certain car manufacturer that promised a horsepower number about 20 over what actually showed up on the dyno! The Internet with it's instant communication to millions of people can make it really tough really fast if you make those kind of mistakes.

JMHO

Mark

Everyone - Take a look around you...the "cool" kids will choose an Escalade over a TA!!! Most of you folks are so "consumed" with the idea that everyone truly W A N T S and 8 cylinder rear wheel drive car...the truth is demand for this car is "rediculously small"...that is why the f-body was dropped...demand was low...If you are first in line...you will pay- pay- pay- for this car...if you wait one two or maybe even three years you will be "sold" by rebates, hood scoops and more horsepower...I think 2005 will be "the year" for me...price cuts, aftermarket startup and still PONTIAC EXCITEMENT...Dont rush to buy this car because you think your neighboor will "beat you to the punch"...Frankly you have to be a f'ing fool to offer this car in December with the cold weather and snow...but...that's GM for ya...look at the big picture...C GTO

COOLGTO,

How can I say this...hmmm....you're wrong. Yah, that's it. Lack of demand didn't kill the f-body. Here's the facts:

Camaro and Firebird sales-

1999 - 50,000 +
2000 - 53,000 +
2001 - 36,000 +
2002 - 49,000 +

That's nearly 200,000 vehicles in four years. All 4 seat coupes. Now add to that a 2 year hiatus for a GM 4 seat coupe. The hype of the GTO. The only real V8 alternative. And only 18,000 available? Are you kidding me? These things are GONE. If you didn't order yet ya' ain't gettin' one. Plain and simple.

Now for the rest of your post. The "cool kids"? Who gives a ****. This ain't no kids car. We've got buyers from 22 to 60. But NO KIDS!

"Pay pay pay". No one here has paid over MSRP that I've heard.

"2005"? Are you nuts? I'm not waiting one more day to drive my GTO.

Neighbors? My neighbors drive a mini van and don't know the first thing about cars. Kind of like COOLGTO. Hey, are you my neighbor? Nice Villager.......dude!

:P :D :P :D :P :D :P :D :P

NA...Wrong figures man...the Pontiac Firebird was at its' peak during the Smokey in the Bandit years...the GM styling was shown the door by the much better yet slower Ford Mustang...Why would GM stop selling a car that sold that many units? YOUR way off...

the latest automotive news article that talks about GM vs SLP regarding "Judge" name, has this little paragraph in it...

Pontiac plans to sell about 18,000 GTOs in the 2004 model year. The car will sell for about $33,000.

Kraut said that an advance-order system put in place last summer has been successful, and that the first buyers are tracking their cars as they are being built. Kraut would not say how many GTOs have been sold, but said he's "cautiously optimistic" that the first year's production will sell out.


the price is also still listed here - GMbuypower (http://www.gmbuypower.com/vehicleList.bp?make=Pontiac&model=All&modelId=all&makeId=002&identifyThumbnail=showAllMake) although when you actually click on the GTO its been taken away .

CoolGTO,

With your massive 14 posts. You will soon learn not to doubt me. Unlike yourself I over-research my facts prior to making a post. I choose not to spread miss-information and waste the time of true car enthusiasts with bs. Here's the facts:

http://www.camaroz28.com/articles/2000buil...ers/index.shtml (http://www.camaroz28.com/articles/2000buildnumbers/index.shtml)

You can research from 1999 to 2002 for yourself as I have done. However if you would like to continue to argue please post your information regarding f-body sales. I'm anxious to hear / see your sources. Try a simple google search. Type in Camaro, Firebird Production. It only takes a minute to know what your talking about. Now you've lost credibility my young padawan. That most precious commodity and now you've pissed it away. I will now ignore you.

:D :P :D :P :D :P :D :P

P.S. I still like your Villager.

1999 Camaro Only
http://www.cairoli.com/z281999production.html

2000 Camaro Only
http://www.cairoli.com/z282000production.html

2001 Camaro Only
http://www.cairoli.com/z282001production.html

2002 Camaro Only
http://www.camarohighway.com/News/2002Prod...tionNumbers.htm (http://www.camarohighway.com/News/2002ProductionNumbers.htm)

:type: Made me show the dark side ****it. :frankie:

Remind me not to doubt you!!


:laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce:

I went with the 33K figure because I figure that Pontiac spies over here and if we guess a price too high the marketing buttholes will say, "Hey those enthusiasts are willing to pay 38K for this thing let's do it!"

I agree with part or Suprfun's above post too.

I have no doubt however that there are 16,000 + people out there that will buy it no mater what the price is, FORD did it with the T-Birds for a while... Hell look at the people on eBay willing to pay $10,000 over sticker. But sooner than later you run out of these people and you have to go back to selling vehicles to your average customers and when they've been left with a bad taste in their mouth from a vehicle they wanted to purchase that's been overpriced it doesn't bode well for that company.

Hear that Pontiac, don't get greedy on this one, take a little bit of a $$$ hit now to ensure future success, you will make more $$$ in the long run. Don't make this the second coming of the New T'bird.

As for all the "cool" kids wanting the Escalades. Let them have them. I don't wan't a big overpriced honkin' SUV with a lot of bling and no performance. Besides tell me what 16-21 year old has the $$$ to buy one anyway??? They are 50 to 55 K! I couldn't care less what they like.

Just a little parting shot too, Sorry COOLGTO I've got to call you on this one.

you have to be a f'ing fool to offer this car in December with the cold weather and snow...

It's called the South and they have a very temperate climate in the winter. Heck even here in Southern Illinois I don't have to worry about snow that much. I do understand what you are getting at though. Not too many Minnesotans will be lining up for a new GTO.

:)

Ha - You guys are ruthless here...it's all in good fun...You give a lot a credibity to a car company who in good faith put forth the Pontiac Aztec!!! I stand my ground!!! The "definition" of a muslce car has changed...the G35 with far less HP will sell more units...You have to face it...this car (GTO) does not "look" the part...the attraction lies in the 6 speed 350HP and price...not enough...I am hoping for hood scoops next year...

so far and i may be wrong but has any new car sold close to what there goal was such as the t bird/ mach 1 / cobra neon srt/ wrx/ and so on/ i dont think so . and i dont realy think the dealers care.. they have other / many cars to sell . so why worry if the gto sells do you folks think the gto will sell better than these cars if they make 12k to 15k of them?? also in my opinion to buy a car from gm such as t/a z28 vette it seems that they make it harder to deal than say ford on the stang /maybe thats why they z and t/a are gone ?? as for the younger folks they buy what there friends think is cool after all they dress alike listen to the same music and there cars are the same??

More bad news for you guys today. The Aussie dollar went upward of 70 US cents this morning. Since the original announcement of the approximate price of the GTO the AUD has risen from about .54USD to its current level. Can someone explain how you absorb a 25% rise in exchange rates.

You HOOD SCOOP people got to get over it - move on, were in a different era here.

Jeese, I for one am getting real tired of the "where's the hood scoops man?"

The Hood - Scoop phenomenon (terrible spelling) is anagolous with the New Coke "flub" of years ago...someone at GM should have had the good sense here to take into account the "American Ideal" of what the GTO is or was or will be...If they can have the gumption to sell this car without Hood Scoops - What else are they capable of??? Hugh price goughing??? Price Controlling via production limiting??? Perhaps...I hate to be some dang negative here...it is not my intention...I would not be here unless I was a serious "buyer" of this car...

yea the hood scoop issue is getting old if you like the car buy a aftermarket hood you know they are in the works by now?? and yes they are capable of any thing just look whats out there now some ugly stuff you never know what scoops they might (gm) have come up with you will have a choice this way ?

As for the US/AUS coversion rate. Remember that as the Australian dollar gains strength, its cars that use a lot of U.S. Canadian parts are paid for with a stonger AUS dollar thus costing them less and lowering the build cost of the car. Holden also has several parts made in Asia due to its close proximity which helps in turn to lower the price of purchase. What this means is the part of the car that is effected by the AUS dollar is the parts of the car made in Austrailia. Since we have no idea of those percentages, playing this Austrailian exchange rate game is senseless. Also note, you can't apply the percentage to the Australian MSRP because GM is paying Holden for the car so they dont have to pay for the markup, or the holdback or for that matter the money Holden factors into the price for marketing because they don't market this car. Also note that by increasing the Monaro production numbers I believe by 3 fold they just cut the development cost per car to almost 1/4 of what is was. Droping the price for us and allowing bigger profit on their cars. You didn't think Holden would give it back to the buyers did you.

Please don't whine about my numbers not being exactly right, I admit these numbers were just rough estimates but they should be relatively close and the points are solid.

Basically, only GM has a clue how the exchange rate really effects the cost of the car and its way more complex than simply converting the Australian MSRP.

Keep the thread on topic everyone...

I agree with the earlier poster that GM will probably stick to the 33-34k range regardless of the exchange rate. They need a nice hit for Pontiac after the Aztec/cladding issues. GM needs a hit after killing off Olds too. They want to be talked about again as makers of something cool (even if it is their Aussie unit). This will get them press and get the curious onto the showroom floors where the less initiated may want to see a GTO on the showrrom floor (yeah, right) and drive out the door in a Grand Am, Grand Prix or other FWD variant. Im sure Lutz has enough sense to not kill off the golden goose like Ford has with the T-Bird by gouging the customers.

I agree! I think Pontiac/GM needs this car. They need it to be a big hit.

you know it cost holden 60 million AUD to develop the monaro? :D

Here is an interesting tibit on GM pricing policies.

The Hummer H2 was introduced at approximately $50k MSRP. No rebates, no GM card dollars, no special financing. Cars were sold at MSRP or more.

At the time of intro, there was a waiting list and the typical mark up games along with ebay sales at $5000+ over MSRP.

- - -

Move forward to today.

GM is allowing GM Card dollars on the H2
Selected customers have received a GM card bonus equal to $500 - $1000 extra

Selected customers are receiving a $1000 coupon in the mail for the H2

A quick check on carsdirect.com shows MSRP of $49,995 and a cars direct price of $48,144

Better yet, check out the carsdirect.com price on a Vette. MSRP of $44,535 - their price $42,660

... draw your own conclusion.

yea pontiac and gm in our opinion need this car to stir up intrest// but does the dealerships care just like in fords case they still jack up prices on specialty cars some ford dealers do not even carry t bird cobra or the mach1 the ones they had at first had a mark up on them . iam not sure but GM doesnt tell the dealers what to sell cars for / msrp?? s= suggested / i remember GNX for 70k in orlando

Not that it necessarily means anything, but the Road and Track 2004 Buyers Guide on newstands now lists the estimated price as $32,500. I like that direction better. It has a nice little writeup and the specs seem to be up to date (except for tire size). Their writeup estimates MPG of 18/27.

I agree with you NASA43, I like that direction also! :D But if the new GTO runs 13.6's in the quarter we'll need that $500 to get it down where it belongs! :P

I thought I'd bring this to the top again since we're close to the release of the MSRP. Everyone of our polls has been dead on so far so let's hope that this one is as well.

Attention Pontiac!

Don't screw this up! You had EVERY opportunity to "leak" or "hint" that MSRP would move upward and you didn't. My emails to Jim Hopson regarding MSRP were all met with reassurances that $33,000 was still the number. If you move now, you've blown it all. We all pre-ordered GTO's on promises and hopes. Please don't piss it all away now. You have an opportunity to win over a whole new group of loyalists. I'm confident that you are reading this and also confident you will do the right thing.

Sincerely,

Chris Van Parys
Order #GMKQ0C
July 22nd, 2003

Like He said!!!

:laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce:

yea

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!