Who Ownes "JUDGE"? [Archive] - Pontiac GTO Forums: Pontiac GTO Forum

: Who Ownes "JUDGE"?


Cperki1
10-21-2003, 11:38 PM
DETROIT -- General Motors and an aftermarket company that specializes in producing high-performance vehicles both are laying claim to the name "Judge" for a souped-up version of the new Pontiac GTO.

GM believes it owns the name, since it created the GTO Judge, a special performance and appearance model of the GTO marketed from 1969 through 1971. The Judge name has not been used on a vehicle since then. Production of the original GTO ended in 1974.

SLP Engineering, of Troy, Mich., best known for creating the high-performance Firebird Firehawk, says it has made the name a registered trademark in preparation for launching its own high-performance models of the GTO next spring.

SLP founder Ed Hamburger said his company will offer three souped-up GTO models, one with 370 hp, one with 389 hp and one badged the "421 Judge," a version that will make 421 hp.

Lapsed ownership?

Hamburger said SLP researched the Judge name and found that ownership had been allowed to lapse. He says he also trademarked the phrase "Here's Comes The Judge," which could be used in advertising.

"GM created the trademark and it has always been associated with GM and the GTO," said Robert Kraut, GTO brand manager. "You get the right to use the trademark with usage and association."

GM will do whatever is necessary to protect its trademarks, a spokesman said.

Hamburger said SLP's GTO packages are aimed at addressing what GTO enthusiasts say are shortcomings of the new car - the lack of a functional hood scoop, rumbling dual exhausts and an aggressive appearance that signals the car's tire-shredding performance.

GTO purists have been pummeling GM with complaints about the car's styling, which many say is too bland and doesn't contain any of the original car's styling DNA.

GM officials have said they specifically don't want the new GTO to look like the old models for fear it will be perceived as a flash in the pan retro car and have a short shelf life.

Pontiac plans to sell about 18,000 GTOs in the 2004 model year. The car will sell for about $33,000.

Kraut said that an advance-order system put in place last summer has been successful, and that the first buyers are tracking their cars as they are being built. Kraut would not say how many GTOs have been sold, but said he's "cautiously optimistic" that the first year's production will sell out.

The 2004 GTO arrives in early December. It is based on the rear-wheel-drive Holden Monaro from Australia and features a 350-hp, 5.7-liter V-8 and rear-wheel drive.

Bolt-on performance

As with the Firehawk, consumers will buy GTOs from a dealer, who will ship the car to an SLP-approved upfitter to have the performance parts added.

"We've established ourselves in the marketplace as a GM tuner," said Hamburger. "This is the next logical extension of the Firehawk program now that that car has been mothballed."

For the GTO, GM is not sharing technical information with SLP. Kraut said that GM is neutral about SLP's beefed up GTOs.

"Our position is that we encourage the production of aftermarket components for our products," said Kraut. "There is a long history of SLP doing this. We shouldn't be surprised that there is a lot of interest in the GTO."

Kraut would not talk about future GM-built super-tuned versions of the GTO other than to say various groups within GM are looking at the car. "There's a real need for personalization and customization in that category of car."

Hopefully they can work something out, but GM should get the Judge nameplate, let SLP get their own name.

Howie
10-22-2003, 12:36 AM
LOVE IT!! :woot: I hope GM wins this battle! Pontiac is the one who should be making the Judge not SLP. If Pontaic does make it it needs to be more than a badge and decals package otherwise :flush: How bout LS-6 405-410hp and manual tranny only.

GM has a bad history of blowing oppotunities like that. Look no further than the 50th Anniversary Vette! Special paint, decals, and specific leather interior for a GM icon turning 50?? :bs:

geekoid
10-22-2003, 03:08 AM
It looks like this is going to get very interesting. If GM really pushes this, it will probably end up in court.

A couple of points. So SLP is going to do three versions now? This is the first I have heard of this. Besides the horsepower, how will they differ? In addition, it is stated that GM is not sharing technical information with SLP. A prolonged fight over the Judge title could really strain relations.

Howie, the LS-6 is good, however, the GEN IV will be available soon. So, could I interest you in a 450hp LS-2? Just a thought.

Nocturn
10-22-2003, 04:41 PM
SLP's will include tacky hood scoops that I doubt will be functional, if they are it will be a gimmick that adds no power since ram air in itself is that that don't match the body lines.. Crappy SLP exhaust I imagine will be included, god help us if they put on loud mouth. Plus I imagine it would be filled with crappy other appearnce mods that SLP thinks look cool. I really hope SLP looses this one, but it is GM's fault if they don't win. I found out that GM didn't have the tradmark from this site long before appearntly GM knew about it. Let's hope the people in GM's intellegence don't work for the U.S. anytime soon.

Orbit Orange
10-22-2003, 05:03 PM
Looks like Pontiac might check things out over here. We have been discussing this for a week or two now.

I still have my e-mail from SLP claiming they own the rights.

Sounds like Pontiac wants them back!

Pontiac really should consult with us shouldn't they. :D :D :D

1966_GTO_
10-23-2003, 05:30 PM
I really want Pontiac to own the Judge name. But if they do win the battle, I want them to make a car that will live up to what SLP is promissing. Then again, I guess SLP will make a 420+ HP GTO no matter what the name is...

chotton
10-23-2003, 07:59 PM
If they go to court GM will loose. The name is now owned by SLP. I was at Ford SVT when they went through the same thing with naming the GT. They wanted to name the car the GT40 but a engineering firm in Dayton Ohio had reserved the rights to the name just as SLP has done with JUDGE. There was nothing that Ford could do except pay the firm in Dayton the money that they wanted, which was in the millions of dollars.

Now GM is in the same boat as Ford was.

DANSLS1
10-23-2003, 08:51 PM
Isn't it a sad state of society and the economy that these names that are really synonomous with certain car companies aren't owned by the car company any more? Not that I care about the Judge name, but it's still not right on many levels to me.

chotton
10-24-2003, 12:23 AM
what it comes down to is the rights to these names have long since expired and at the time that rights did expire there were to keys to why they weren't renewed. 1) the car companies didn't think they would ever use these names again and 2) they didn't have the value that they do today. This made the car companies think we spend the money to protect someting that 1) we will never use again and 2) it's something at the time no had no real value.

leondb
11-25-2003, 01:48 AM
I also think Pontiac should get the Judge as well! SLP can come up with some other cool name... like SVT Killer... or something... The Terminator... see if Arnold would mind a car being named after him... :jumpon: Come on Pontiac, yo cann doo itt...

Nocturn
11-25-2003, 05:52 PM
SLP blows, I hated them, and I never liked them...I NEVER liked them zorak.

cvp33
11-25-2003, 07:42 PM
Nocturn,

Let it all out big boy. It's not good to hold that all in. :D

Seriously though that post is positively venomous. :angry: I can hear your teeth grinding. You must've had a bad experience. Want to share?

Just curious. :huh:

'91 Formula
11-25-2003, 10:08 PM
According to this article, it may not be called the Judge at all.

http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-swjud3555...0,5082908.story (http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-swjud3555915nov23,0,5082908.story)

Nocturn
11-25-2003, 11:04 PM
Its actually a line from Space Ghost, but I still feel that way. If they get their hands on the GTO I can only imagine the tacky ass body bpackage they will add alone for 4-5K, which all the dealers will have leaving those who dont want it SOL. Then they will add their 421 HP jduge...what is that supposed to mean something because it has the same HP rating as an old pontiac engine, come on we are not that easily impressed. From what I have seen all they care about is getting money, and I can only imagine the tacky ass suped up GTO that they are going pettle to us for a meer 15K mark up. With no other GTO's for those of us who like it THE WAY IT FRIKKIN IS AND DONT WANT GAY ASS HOODSCOOPS THAT WONT FOLLOW THE **** LINES OF THE CAR......BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH

Orbit Orange
11-25-2003, 11:42 PM
Lutz states, (about the Judge name)

"There are some positives and some negatives with that name. My early call was to name it Judge, but would BMW call one of its performance cars Judge?

I find this very informative in the direction Pontiac wants to take with the GTO. He and others are really thinking of this as a BMW fighter not a Rustang fighter. I would think that the hipo GTO would have the GXP tag on it or some other alphanumeric designation. This sounds like what Lutz is hinting at. It would definitely try to separate Pontiac's hipo GTO as the "classy" performer and the SLP version "Judge" as the "street-racer/low brow brawler".

Just a thought. B)

boostmiser
12-14-2003, 01:57 PM
Well first, it shows Pontiac's snoozing. They should have laid claim to that name 35 years ago. Too bad for them. At least with SLP you know you'll get a stout car...unlike Pontiac special badging and nothing more. When the Judge comes out, I'm in line. Until then, I'll be on the sidelines. I don't care who builds it, just make it available with some balls. Not to mention Pontiac is lucky to even have the GTO designation as Ferrari really 'owned' that.
I'm a former 1965 GTO owner. Nothing more than a Temptest so I don't know why everyone is complaining about the styling. Could have been worse - Grand Am :tongue: The wheels are the only thing I don't truely like.