One thing I noticed at Bowling Green that shocked me was that pretty much everyone I talked to hated the GTO...and I mean in a almost violent kind of way. I don't get it.....

Me neither. I love cars. Period. I've never understood the chevy vs. ford mentality. I've flip flopped and owned Mustangs and Z28s. I love'em both.....and whats wrong with that. I just buy the car with the biggest bang for the buck. My only loyalty is that I would have a tough time buying a car from a non-American company. I don't care where it is assembled. I care about who designed it and where the money is going. I'd rather see it in Detroit than Japan or Germany.

Davbo gets off his soapbox.....

what? GM dealt a sharp blow to F-body enthusiasts ego, the f-body dominated the mustang in performance for so long, and then they announce the end of it, so people are upset , but still at least it went out on top, but then ford pulls out the '03 cobra.

lol,were you attacked ?

They only have to wait for 3 more years to get the Camaro back. Think they'll get over it by then??!!??

:laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce:

They feel (rightfully) betrayed by the General for what they did to the Fbody. On top of that, they are still upside down in their Fbody payments and are pi$$ed that they may have bought the wrong car, i.e. should have waited for the GTO. Its human nature.

yea my die hard f body friends hate the new gto/ also they are mad and make fun of what they know about it. but when they see it from behind they will hate it even more just kidding some people just hate change but they will get over it???

But why hate the GTO? They'd rather have nothing?

how do you feel about it branden ?

I know you own this website... and support the users and the cause.

I also know you just recently bought your F-body.

but i haven't really seen you show your real feelings towards the GTO.

Don't think there are too many upside down recent Z28 Camaro buyers out there.
The V8 Camaro has one of the best resale values out there. Equal or better than a Cadillac CTS.
Only the '94-'96 Impala SS betters it.
The Impala SS has the best resale value of any GM car ever built.

I think people will come around. Once they see the car in person
and see how well it is made.
I remember when Ford changed the Mustang. Everyone I knew hated the
new design. Then when you started seeing them on the road and seeing how
well made they were......Everyone had to have one.
I think this will turn out the same way. It is hard loosing a car that you love.
People fear change! At first anyway!

I'm an F-body owner and I have no problems with the GTO. Infact I think my garage will pretty fricking sweet with my '99 Frirehawk and '04 GTO sitting next to each other in it.

I seem to have caught some kind of disease hanging out with you guys. My two car garage is seemingly too small now. I need at least a third slot for a project car.

:laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce: :laughbounce:

Originally posted by b4z@Oct 25 2003, 11:04 AM

The Impala SS has the best resale value of any GM car ever built.
What are you talking about?

what about the sylcone - typhoon?

gn?

what about the gnx? thats worth more than it was back in 1987

yes iam glad for a hard top rear wheel V8 2 door this soon . but the f body folks are still upset and they will get over it in time? as far as the name doesnt matter to me pontiac had to use the best name and thats the GTO?

I think they hated because magazines give the perception to everyone that the GTO is here to replace the f-body.

And the GTO is in no way a good replacement for the f-body. Main reason being its weight, and straightline performance.

If the GTO had weighed in at the same 3400 pounds the current f-body weighs.. I see a lot of people would have taken it very differently.

I've chimed in many times on these "hater" topics. My explanation remains the same. The 2004 Pontiac GTO is just a car, nothing more, nothing less. It's not representitive of a betrayal by GM towards enthusiasts nor is it a statement regarding our (USA) ability to build a car. While some will try to use the GTO as an excuse to hate GM or hate new GTO owners at car shows and events I will quietly drive mine and ignore the BS. I am more concerned with the color of my car than the name. Those that decide not to buy one will be missing what could easily be the finest quality Pontiac ever made and easily the most enjoyable. It's their loss.

To us f-body owners and tuners the idea of the f-body being on "hiatus" or gone for good was a rough blow. We blame GM making several very poor decisions between late '91 and '00 for causing the f-body's demise. The Monaro and Camaro's name similarities and the sudden hype a few years back about the possibility of a Holden-made Camaro got us excited. When I saw the Monaro I didn't see a Camaro though. Now, after having driven one it still wouldn't seem like to right replacement for the 4th-gen. The re-release of the GTO probably couldn't have happened without the hiatus of the Camaro/TA...at least not at the sticker price it is at right now...the two models would be too close.
In my eyes I'm glad GM gave me a good Camaro alternative for now. In the last 2 years the "demise" of the f-body has gotten the attention of a lot of non-car people....people that wouldn't miss te Camaro or T/A until it was actually gone. For that reason I see the '03-'07 (???) gap as exactly what might be needed to get sales back to where they need to be. It also give GM the opportunity to figure out what the last model lacked to be a bread-winner. I think GM's learned a lot here in the last few years....particularly that an 18,000 units per year car that is profitable makes sense....and that maybe the Camaro and/or T/A doesn't need to stoop to a level such as selling v6 units for cost to be considered successful.
To summarize, I welcome the GTO and hope that the F-body crisis works itself out. A little more quality and a little less "quirkyness" in the design of the car could wipe out its competition. I think this GTO biz is where GM will learn to do this.

my f body friends and my self dont see the gto as a replacement fo the f body but the gto will have a few better things like the rear and stearing in general / i am hoping that the gto will be better at drivabilty on in town semi rough roads and corners under normal driving.. i relize the f body with its wider tiresand shorter wheel base handels better under harder driving but who drives like that all the time/ in my opinion the gto is like a modern 84 to 87 montess/ GN/442 and thats what i like maybe it closer to the current mustang and thats why the mustang sells better?? but my opion on that is they ford build more so they need to sell more?? i think the straight line performance will be darn close auto or stick to the current f body after all i saw a lumnia ss at the track run 13.6 ?? also a problem with the z28 00 to 02 it looked like a v6 car at least gm could have given it its own wheels and maybe hood and spoiler along with the performance??

"but then ford pulls out the '03 cobra." What does that mean? Have you seen them run at the track? I've yet to see one get into the 12's like they were supposed to. Most I've seen are mid 13's. Yea maybe they have bad drivers, who cares, all I know is on the street I'm not gonna be scared of 'em. And I am a die-hard F-body enthusiast, and still love the GTO. They are 2 DIFFERENT cars. Yea I'd MUCH rather have a 4th gen F-Body over a GTO, but when I'm done with mine, I see the GTO as a good choice.

TandA...I didn't notice on your sig where your from but here in Orlando we've seen both customer cars ('03 Cobras) and competitors cars baseline well into the 12's. Our best run while baselining a customer's car was one which already had a set of drag radials in place of the stock tires and it went 12.52 @ 109 even though the customer had a hard time finding 3rd gear. That was in 85* weather, but @ just above sea level.

Less than $500 in mods on those cars can net you very low 12s.

I go to Bradenton Motorsports Park, in Bradenton FL. I have yet to see one break into the 12's. Like I said, it could be the drivers, but a car that can "potentially" do 12's doesn't mean jack if the driver can't do it. F-Bodys on the otherhand consistantly "Do" what they are supposed to at the track. I just see the Cobra as a overpriced disapointment. But hey what else would you expect from Ford.

How much of that is traction though, the LS1 doesn't have nearly the off the line problems that Cobra has, mainly due to its peak HO and TQ are way up in the powerband. So it can chirp off the line and get rolling, while the cobra has to granny it and then try and catch traction.

TA,

I used to do alot of tuning / racing in Bradenton. I had a 67 Chevelle and had a blast. Went every year to the Snow Bird Nationals. I saw Darryl Gwynn race there 2 weeks before his wreck that left him in a wheel chair. Saw Joe Amato, Don Pruhdome, Gene Snow and so many others. Man I miss that track. :D

"How much of that is traction though" What does that matter? All I'm saying is the "average" person's not getting the over-rated #'s out of it.

cvp33, do you still live in the area? A bunch of us from fbody.com go there all the time.

TA,

I left that area over 7 years ago. I now live in VA. I worked for a Supermarket chain you may have heard of, Kash N' Karry. Long story but I'm much better off where I am now. I do miss the track tho'. :D

i have seen 2 cobras in orlando at the track run in the mid 12s i think only air intakes on them ill look next time i go but there is so much rice latley my head hurts ?? also saw a blue cobra with air intake/ pulleys and something elese that made445 at the wheels/ yes they are costly but a disapointment ????

GM displayed three GTOs as the Woodward Dream Cruise last August. They garnered a ton of attention, and pretty much positive praise.

The only people who didn't seem to like it were greasy rednecks who probably wanted monster tires on the back, and two huge nostrils jutting out of the hood. Basically people who couldn't afford one if they wanted one anyways.

Another thing I marvel at, is how loved the 1994-1996 Impala SS is now, despite being a round, bland car with a retro name and no retro styling cues. It only had 260HP as well (and wasn't that fast stock), far short of the original 405HP 409CID Impala SS cars.

I have a feeling that once the new GTO is out, and tearing up the streets and race tracks, a lot of opinions will change, just as they did for the Impala SS.

Most F-body fans are just bitter that GM ditched the Camaro/Firebird/TA. It is easy to see why many feel betrade. GM said they stopped making the F-body due to poor sales (approx. 75,000 in its worst year) yet they can make a GTO the will be limited to 18,000 units.


As much as I hated to see the Camaro go I'm soooo Glad the are making the GTO. It looks like a great car, good to see RWD performance isn't dead at GM.