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Old 08-05-2006, 03:58 PM   #1
formula79
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Opinions on Intakes?

I have a K&N Aircharger sitting in the garage waiting to be installed, but I am kinda having buyers remorse. More because I want something that kinda looks better. Maybe a polished AEM Brute Force of something.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? If AEM out performs the K&N I may get it. But of the K&N is better I will keep it.

Thanks!
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Old 08-05-2006, 05:35 PM   #2
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My concern about using and AEM CAI is the fact that the intake tube is made of metal/alloy. Relative to the plastic used by the K&N CAI, I suspect that the thermal conductivity of a CAI like AEM is much higher. For this reason, and the fact that the intake tube runs along the backside of the radiator, my guess is that the air is heated up pretty good with a setup similar to AEM. Correct me if I am wrong, but the AEM does not have the heat shield. Even though this is not enough to keep the IAT's down, I think that it is better than not having anything. I have not seen any comparisons between the CAI's, but would have to believe, unless proven otherwise, that the K&N setup is better than the AEM.

All in all, it is hard to imagine that there is more than a few horsepower difference between the various CAI setups. I know that there are a lot of folks out there running the LPE CAI and Volant CAI. Unless I am mistaken, these two CAI's, in combination with the K&N Air Charger are the three most popular CAI's. I see folks with the AEM, but no where near as many as those who have either the K&N, LPE, or Volant.

-K
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Old 08-06-2006, 12:49 AM   #3
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i completly agree and back you up LA phantom, im studying to be a metallurgist and i been studying about materials for a while. aluminum is the only metal that can easily absorb heat, its not a disadvatange as it wont melt but your logic makes sence. if the overall tube is going to be hot then the air is at least going to get a 1/4 warm from it, hot weather and of course the heat of the engine running. KN uses pretty decent thermosetting plastics, and i can tell they are serious about that cause they don't really make their kits in anything else but plastic. they use decent durable plastic that also is pretty well resistant to heating up. honestly KN is still the best at ait intakes and i dont trust anything else, and who cares about a polished tube? you got the hood closed anyway, one thing is valve covers but in my opinoin it doesn't matter and once again the AEM does not have a heat shield. and also im suprised that finally someone else did notice the LPE intake is a combination of others, i mean its a KN filter using another pipe and their own heat shield. honestly i think the LPE intake is not greater then the others, i prefer KN all the way
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Old 08-06-2006, 12:23 PM   #4
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if you're not interested in the prettiest intake and want the best you have to fab it yourself. the only way to get flow and decent IATs quickly is the DIY route at least for now. on another board which i shall not mention here, i posted up my intake solution and it was met with mostly a thunderous silence. after three months a few have started looking into it and the ones that have done the mods are enthuiasticlly reporting the same thing i've been preaching all along. if you want to look into it post me a message.
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Old 08-06-2006, 12:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svede1212
if you're not interested in the prettiest intake and want the best you have to fab it yourself. the only way to get flow and decent IATs quickly is the DIY route at least for now. on another board which i shall not mention here, i posted up my intake solution and it was met with mostly a thunderous silence. after three months a few have started looking into it and the ones that have done the mods are enthuiasticlly reporting the same thing i've been preaching all along. if you want to look into it post me a message.
Svede, I have been pretty good at keeping up with your CAI research, including the IAT sensor relocation. I would recommend to anyone that they get in touch with you to read what you have empiracally determined. I don't think that they have to be into DIY mods to find the work interesting. I personally would like to thank you for taking the time to do the work and writing it up. You da man!

-K
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Old 08-06-2006, 05:51 PM   #6
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Have you read what the Gravana Intake has to say about heat soak?

Quote:
DOESN'T IT GET HEAT SOAK?
After driving your vehicle and parking it for some time, almost every metal component in your engine compartment begins to get "heat soaked". However, there are two reasons that your engine will not be breathing warm air for very long. First, most intake systems on the market today are too short to allow intake air to heat up from contact with the intake tube. Second, as soon as you start your engine, air begins to travel through your intake system at a certain speed. As you start to drive and accelerate, the air that travels through your intake system is moving at such a fast speed, that the air does not have enough time to heat up.
http://www.gravanatuning.com/applica...AINLESS_STEEL_
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Old 08-06-2006, 07:20 PM   #7
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Of course they say that they sell metal intakes.lol. any time theres heat around an intake the air will heat up. Its not a driving down the highway problem its a sitting at idol at a traffic light (or even worse traffic lights) problem. the air is not moving quickly and the alloy absorbs the engine heat which in turn causes the the temp probe to become heat soaked and then from what ive read from others takes a fair amount of time to become cooled off . The best intake ive seen is one where its got 2 smaller can style filters which go forward of the engine to an air box which receives vented air from the hood scoops. Theres no ram air effect and there really isnt any on any car until extreme speeds are reached but the air being drawn in is at least from outside the car and not inside the engine compartment.
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula79
Have you read what the Gravana Intake has to say about heat soak?
I am going to have to call BS on this one, as I agree with GTO_n_442. As part of my job I design industrial heat echangers for petroleum refineries and various chemical plants, both conventional shell and tune and air cooled exchangers. A short intake tube does limit the heat transfer area, but generally speaking, increased velocities lead to improved heat transfer coefficients. This leads to better overall heat transfer, which means that the air is heated more. That is, the hotter the intake tube becomes, the more the air will heat. In my head there is just no way of getting around the fact that the thermal conductivity of metal is greater than that of the plastic used in CAI's.

If the intake tube is insulated...well that is another story.

-K
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:16 PM   #9
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I like the K&N system I have, It works well in cooler temps., but I've noticed the hurt in performance during the onslaught of the triple digits. The heat shield that is offered has its good and bads, mainly bads, for there is alot to be disired in sealing the filter from the engine bay heat. But I'm working on something to seal it off from some of the heat. What I'd like to see is something that would be used in bringing the hood scoops into play, like a replacement radiator cover that would able to use the hood scoops and bring in fresh air and funnel it to my K&N system. I had a similar setup in my GTP. It had a K&N airbox that got fresh air from the fender well and had a hole on top that was used in conjunction with a custom hood w/scoops, so I got air flow from both.
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:44 PM   #10
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Frorocks, if you have not already done so, check with Svede1212. He has already done a considerable amount of work with respect to a true CAI.

-K
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:49 PM   #11
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Oh yeah, good read. Seen some similar examples on some car shows, very cool. But I've been thinking about trying a different route. See where it leads me.
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Old 08-08-2006, 01:03 AM   #12
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I've read a lot of what svede has done too. What it seems to me is that the intake tubes become heat soaked. Then the actual IAT sensor becomes heat soaked itself and reads a higher temperature than it should. On top of that the thermistor is slow to react to temp changes. I also have a hard time believing that when I'm running around in 90 degree air at say 60 miles per hour (2000 plus rpms) that my Predator says the air coming in is 100 degrees. There is no way it can become heated 10 degrees in the fraction of a second it goes from ambient air to when it hits the sensor. It has to be the sensor becoming heat soaked and giving a higher than actual intake air temp.

After seeing that the timing begins to be pulled on the LS1 in the GTO at about 86 degrees, it makes me think about using an IAT spoof (resistor) to fool the computer into thinking it's taking in 42 degree air. It would stand to reason you'd be safe up to 86 degrees of air temp outside (at speed, idling would be another story). Also I've pondered using a IAT relocator to get the IAT farther from the radiator (closer to the filter).

Then I start thinking I've only got a couple more months of this [email protected] and the air will be cooler and I won't have to worry about it at all.

Short of ordering a thermistor and rigging up an IAT on my own I think I'm just going to have to grin and bear it until it cools off. I think I'd have a hard time paying 15 bucks for something that looks like 2 little copper wires attached to the head of a pin. I know it works but I just can't bring myself to doing it yet.



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Old 08-09-2006, 12:31 AM   #13
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I dunno...is there anything out there that says how much stainless suffers heat soak?
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Old 08-10-2006, 12:57 AM   #14
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it doesn't matter how much it suffers, its the simple fact that its a metal is already makes it suseptable to absorption. steel doesn't have a bad heat soak compared to aluminum, but none the less its number two compared to titanium. just go with a KN kit with a plastic tube, thermosetting plastics can resist heat better. and not like you really need a really fancy high polished intake tube when your hood is going to be closed most of the times and nothing else in the engine bay matches with it
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Old 08-10-2006, 11:30 PM   #15
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Something that I just found:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnefastGTO
Called K&N today. They know about the 2006 model's power steering pulley being larger and are making another tube with an indentation in it to clear the pulley. They are sending me another tube overnight air. Thanks to Jontall for letting me know about the pulley size change.
Is sounds like this is some good information to have before pulling the trigger on a CAI.

-K
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