Old school question

thunderdan · 01-09-2007, 05:10 PM

I know that this is a forum for new Goats, which I have one, however, I have been dismantling my '69 GTO for restoration and in lieu of it's original Q-jet it has an old Holley on it. I was wondering if anybody knew much about the older stuff like this old thing. I do know that it is at least 25 years old (the last time the car was ever running) and it is a spread-bore design, but has two accelerator pumps and a single fuel inlet. Seems odd as most of the older holley carbs are all square bore design. Does anyone know what model or series this carb is?

mechanic58 · 01-09-2007, 08:41 PM

You have in your possession either a 4165 or a 4175. I would suggest to you that perhaps you might use it to test the clamping power of your log splitter with. It'd be good for that. But if you want to rebuild it and use it (god help you) you can go here and find PNs for any piece on it. Good luck.

P.S. Btw, that's a 650 cfm carb.

thunderdan · 01-11-2007, 01:21 PM

LOL I understand. I have never been a big fan of Holleys and the circular file might be the best resting place for this. Thanks a bunch for your help with this!!! I'll try and get some picks of the car for those who migth be interested too....

mechanic58 · 01-11-2007, 03:08 PM

My cousin just aquired a '65 Tempest with 43,000 original DOCUMENTED miles. Car is kinda plain, dog dish hub caps, radio delete. 2 door hard top. 326 automatic. Even came with ALL the license plates that were ever on it, including the original ones from 1965. The spare set of keys even still had the tag on them with instructions on what to do if you lose your keys. Amazing. I hope to get some pics of it soon also. I'll post them. He got it from the original owner's son. The guy's mother bought the car brand new in 1965 and only drove it up until the mid 70s. Used it locally somewhere in Ohio. She died in 1981 and willed it to her son. He was never "able" to drive the car, because it was his mother's, and he just now finally was able to turn loose of it. The car has been garage kept since new. I can't wait to see it!

mechanic58 · 01-11-2007, 03:11 PM

Oh, and there's really nothing wrong with Holley carburetors. They're just like anything else, it's what you're used to. HOWever, the 4165-75 series Holleys were junk. They were a miserable attempt by Holley to mimic the performance and fuel economy of a GOOD quadrajet. Lotta people cuss Q-jets too, but *I* have actually went mid-12s breathing through a single Q-jet in a 4,000lb car. If there's a will, there's a way.

thunderdan · 01-11-2007, 09:41 PM

Wow. '65 tempest/le Mans/gto were beautiful cars. and something that solid, complete, and unique is a true find, mostly with 64K!!!.

This GTO was sticking out of a garage/old carport when I kept driving by it every other day. It's antique gold with no vinyl top--nothing fancy or Hi-po looking. however as the back was facing the road, I was not sure if it was a GTO, tempest or Le Mans. Finally, curiosity got the better of me and I stopped by on my day off. As luck would have it, the older woman who answered the door mentioned that her son was willing to part with it and she had an old 1965 rambler that was her husband retirement gift from AMC back in the day. I asked if I could view the pontiac. she said sure, but she wasn't aware of any pricing. As I got closer I noticed the decklid said "GTO" and the license plate had '83 tags on it!!! It was strait and Complete!!! The windshield was cracked a bit and the rear window was rusted at the bottom like all GM A-bodies do, however everything was there and no teenager had owned or messed with it. The drivers door opened easily and aside from dust and moldy smell it was like a time machine. Buckets, console, AM/FM, A/C, floor mats and everything else left in there from the early '80's. rear package tray was toast from sitting in the Texas sun for all those years. Did I mention this was located east of Austin, Tx about 5 miles, and had been here all it's life. I grew up in Iowa so anything that lasted over 20 years was exceptional and 30+ years, well, it was a VERY rare find. As I viewed the odometer it said 57,XXX miles! Now, popping the hood I expected to find either a missing engine or some *******ized remains of some replacement engine. I saw slighly rusty chrome valve covers(which were factory-issues on GTOs) and scraped off the gunk on the block to see the "YS" code for a 350 HP 400 GTO engine! Still had the factory dual exhaust and TH400 as well. all the tires were old, I mean old bias-ply Montgomery Ward whilewalls (built in 1975, as noted from the dot code on the back). on the factory 14" ralley II wheels.

Anyhoo, I bought it for a song and am now taking it apart to frame-off restore it!

And I woudl like to locate a 1969 Pontiac YS or YT coded Q-jet if possible. 350 HP 400 came in Grand Prixs, GTO, and Bonnevilles, if I rememeber correctly.

Anyway it's late and I am going home. I'll post some pics when I take some more.

Cheers,

mechanic58 · 01-11-2007, 10:00 PM

Wow, I love "old car find" stories. I could sit and listen to / tell them all day. I HAVE some old BOP Q-jets packed away somewhere. Problem is, they're back east in NC right now and I'm in Nevada. lol. Anyway, here's a good old car find story for ya...lol. I spent 9 years in the Navy, my first tour was in Hawaii, on Kauai, at the Pacific Missile Range Facility at Barking Sands. I was an aircraft mechanic. When I transferred out there, that last thing on my mind was "actually being able to dragrace" while I was there. As it turns out, there's 4 NHRA Sanctioned strips in Hawaii. One on every major island. So I get to the base and low and behold, parked in the barracks parking lot was a '66 Chevelle Super Sport with a set of Weld Draglites and faded paint. I couldn't believe it....but it gets better...it belonged to a CHICK. Needless to say, she was the first friend I made. Long story short, after about 3 months, I swindled her out of it with a straight trade....lol....a 1980 Toyota Celica that I had bought with a bad oil leak for $75. LMFAO! Of course I fixed it up nice, she was tickled. The car was missing the original 396 and TH400 (I think) but it did still have the original 12 bolt rearend WITH (and get this) an original set of dealer installed GM 4.56 gears. She had been driving that car, daily, with a 305 and TH-350 with a set of 4.56s, for like 4 years. LMFAO! Anyway, it became my project and race car out there for a few years, until I disovered yet ANOTHER neat old car....an original '69 Z28, which I purchased as a roller (no engine) for $1,400. The car was 100% rust-free, had perfect interior and even had the original M21 with it. This was in 1995. I didn't have enough sense at the time to do what I SHOULDA done with that car....but I did put a 454 with two 4's in it. That was a great car. It was a low compresion 454 and it ran consistant 12.50's on regular pump gas. I kept it for about 2 years or so and sold it to some guy that took it to Japan. I should have my ass removed for ever getting rid of that car. These two stories are mere drops in the bucket, as far as old car stories go, for me. Not many folks around, regular folks, that have had more cars than I have. lol.

gto n 442 · 01-12-2007, 04:43 PM

Im seriously thinking of going back to a q jet on my 442 (when it finally gets done in the body shop) . I have an 750cfm edelbrock squarebore on it now and i really dont think its the best suited for the car. perhaps the 750 might be a bit too big for it although it was the sugested size according to edelbrock for use with thier cam and intake. I miss the sound of the q jets secondaries opening the edelbrock just doesnt have the same feeling or sound to it.

Kauai would be a nice place to live for awhile . I was there for a couple of days on vaction and thought it was the best island i had visited. Im sure that was a good time for you mech and a better location than most aircraft mechs get to go to in the military. most of the guys i work with were stationed in places like minot or offut even some of the nam guys are still wrenching. however i bet living on the islands can get pretty lame after awhile.

thunderdan · 01-12-2007, 06:08 PM

I agree, old car finds are some of the best stories out there. Like when car magazines provide old car finds issues like they did back in the day. And yeah, I'd kick my own a$$ too for selling those, but I sold my 1st car (1964 Impala Coupe with a 283/powerglide) which was in the family for over 30 years. But hey, what are you gonna do? Almost forgot, still have the 283, rebuilt and all, in dry storage for over 12 years. Any takers? and for the '69 GTO, it has 3.23 gears, non posi. P/S and manual drums all around. Oh, and gto_n_442, 750 should be right for a 400+ cubic inch engine on your 442. With the right tuning, of course. All Q-jets were at least 750 cfm and some ran like stink and got respectable mileage. Anyway, thanks for everyone's input.

mechanic58 · 01-12-2007, 07:55 PM

The richest Q-jet you coulda got you will find atop a 500ci Cadillac. They work great. lol. I believe they're about 850cfm.

mechanic58 · 01-12-2007, 07:56 PM

oh...and my best friend's email address is actually "Q-jetfantasy@hotmail.com" LMFAO!!

bluebyu05 · 01-21-2007, 02:09 PM

go get an edelbrock carb and be done with it . i had a holley on my el camero nothing but problems dropped a edelbrock in no problems. heres another web site for more info if you need ,good luck.GTO Alley

thunderdan · 02-20-2007, 07:09 PM

More news. Pulled the valve cover and noticed that underneath the stud bracing--factory screw-in studs and guideplates that the intake valve pushrod on the #1 cylinder was missing!!?! The rocker was just rattling around! It was very clean though(no sludge!). I then proceeded to pull the intake and found the wounded soldier of a pushrod--bent and deformed-lying there on the lifter valley. This may help explain why they stopped driving it. Never going to run right without the intake valve opening. Anyhoo the lifter valley is clean as heck too. Engine still will not turn over...won't even budge. Any thoughts as to the cause of the bent pushrod? I suppose someone revved it up and floated the valves and that knocked it out. Pulling the heads off this weekend to autopsy it further.

Gotta love these old cars!

Gonna_Try_One · 02-26-2007, 07:38 PM

The '67' I drove back in high-school came with a smoke bellowing 400ci in it. Was replaced with a bored/rebuilt 455 (463), which a friend promptly blew up on me after I let him borrow it one night. It then got a 455 HO from a '71' Judge dropped in. I will confirm that over-revving these puppys will promptly put a couple of the push rods into a nice lazy "S" shape. Been there, done that.